Crafting is officially garbage in POE

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VoodootiKi escribió:

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CliveHowlitzer escribió:

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trav_dawg escribió:

It's nice to know someone else feels this way. I am seriously sick of right clicking and then left clicking on my sword. Candy crush is way more f*****ing fun than that. I want to kill shit not click 3600 times. And a gamble is one thing, but at SOME POINT is has to actually work... RIGHT!?

Sure! All you have to do is lower your expectations to the point that they are already met!

This exactly! People compare the "horrid crafting" in here to other games where crafting is guaranteed. It is actually really sad since this game is, as you said, basically a slots machine with orbs being the quarters you put in.

Lots of games are like that.

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syrioforel escribió:

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VoodootiKi escribió:

This exactly! People compare the "horrid crafting" in here to other games where crafting is guaranteed. It is actually really sad since this game is, as you said, basically a slots machine with orbs being the quarters you put in.

Lots of games are like that.

Not really, PoE is the most extreme game in this regard

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syrioforel escribió:

You don't need much math knowledge to do any of the computations you might want to do. CS background knowledge should be enough.

http://zedshaw.com/essays/programmer_stats.html

Generally speaking, most computer scientists are terrible when it comes to statistics, I have experienced this first hand (I am a computer programmer myself)

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syrioforel escribió:

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allbusiness escribió:

So what you're saying is that in order to craft towards end game, you have to either have the luckiest RNG possible or have absolutely no life? Yeah, great game design there.

Can you do better?

Yeah, it's called not making crafting not solely reliant on RNG. You can have guaranteed recipes that are hard to make and cost some high level of currency, which would accomplish what Scrotie is talking about. You'd extend the crafting community endgame to about 1% to probably 10-15%, which is alot more reasonable than it is right now.

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allbusiness escribió:

Yeah, it's called not making crafting not solely reliant on RNG. You can have guaranteed recipes that are hard to make and cost some high level of currency, which would accomplish what Scrotie is talking about. You'd extend the crafting community endgame to about 1% to probably 10-15%, which is alot more reasonable than it is right now.

If reliable crafting existed, I would actually bother crafting

Instead I just farm for all of my items

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allbusiness escribió:

Yeah, it's called not making crafting not solely reliant on RNG. You can have guaranteed recipes that are hard to make and cost some high level of currency, which would accomplish what Scrotie is talking about. You'd extend the crafting community endgame to about 1% to probably 10-15%, which is alot more reasonable than it is right now.

Now, can you implement reliable crafting in a way that doesn't flood the game with top-tier (what would be called "mirror-worthy") items? Can you also make it the case that someone with not a lot of currency might have a hope to craft one on their own?

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syrioforel escribió:

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allbusiness escribió:

Yeah, it's called not making crafting not solely reliant on RNG. You can have guaranteed recipes that are hard to make and cost some high level of currency, which would accomplish what Scrotie is talking about. You'd extend the crafting community endgame to about 1% to probably 10-15%, which is alot more reasonable than it is right now.

Now, can you implement reliable crafting in a way that doesn't flood the game with top-tier (what would be called "mirror-worthy") items? Can you also make it the case that someone with not a lot of currency might have a hope to craft one on their own?

Yes, easily, the fact that crafting has RNG right now is irrelevant to the people that craft currently, because the people that craft currently are the top 1% epic wealthy players, who have enough capital to deal with the RNG.

All this change will actually make mid level players (such as myself) be able to realistically craft gear for anything that isn't potions or maps, because they have an attainable goal they can work to without requiring ridiculous initial capital to deal with RNG.

Its irrelevant for the top tier players whether or not there is RNG, they trade their exalteds for something like a thousand fusings and just proceed to craft an epic item like that, in fact thats what they currently do

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deteego escribió:

All this change will actually make mid level players (such as myself) be able to realistically craft gear for anything that isn't potions or maps, because they have an attainable goal they can work to without requiring ridiculous initial capital to deal with RNG.

In the current state, that would probably be something like "200 fusings for a 5L, 1000 to 6L" (figures approximate) vendor recipes. Do you think new players would react well to that? I personally appreciate the data, but GGG doesn't release that data.

For what reason don't they release that data? Does that reason have merit? Removing RNG from the system would run contrary to whatever reason that is.

You should be able to thoroughly answer at least the above before claiming that the crafting system can be easily fixed. I'm not saying you can't, but your tone suggests that this is a trivial problem to fix, while on the contrary there are lots of things that require careful consideration.

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syrioforel escribió:

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deteego escribió:

All this change will actually make mid level players (such as myself) be able to realistically craft gear for anything that isn't potions or maps, because they have an attainable goal they can work to without requiring ridiculous initial capital to deal with RNG.

In the current state, that would probably be something like "200 fusings for a 5L, 1000 to 6L" (figures approximate) vendor recipes. Do you think new players would react well to that? I personally appreciate the data, but GGG doesn't release that data.

I definitely would react to that, I would actually sink my currency into items rather than just using my orbs to trade, which I really believe is what GGG's intended use for orbs

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syrioforel escribió:

For what reason don't they release that data? Does that reason have merit? Removing RNG from the system would run contrary to whatever reason that is.

Can you be more explicit here, are you talking about the reason why GGG has put RNG into crafting?

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deteego escribió:

I definitely would react to that, I would actually sink my currency into items rather than just using my orbs to trade, which I really believe is what GGG's intended use for orbs

I would use my orbs as you would. However, I don't expect my reaction to be typical of the player base.

Lots of people do lotteries. I think that's beyond stupid, especially with the risk of scams. But people do them. Those are people seeking even *more* RNG than is already in the game.

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deteego escribió:

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syrioforel escribió:

For what reason don't they release that data? Does that reason have merit? Removing RNG from the system would run contrary to whatever reason that is.

Can you be more explicit here, are you talking about the reason why GGG has put RNG into crafting?

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. I assume they put a fair amount of thought behind their crafting system (after all they've spent far more time thinking about PoE than any of us), so there is a reason for the large amount of RNG present. They could easily give us an idea of the odds for links, too, if they wanted.

I would want to understand their reasoning for this design choice before discarding it.

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syrioforel escribió:

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deteego escribió:

I definitely would react to that, I would actually sink my currency into items rather than just using my orbs to trade, which I really believe is what GGG's intended use for orbs

I would use my orbs as you would. However, I don't expect my reaction to be typical of the player base.

Lots of people do lotteries. I think that's beyond stupid, especially with the risk of scams. But people do them. Those are people seeking even *more* RNG than is already in the game.[/quote]

I think the point is that these players are not reflective of the player base in general

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syrioforel escribió:

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. I assume they put a fair amount of thought behind their crafting system (after all they've spent far more time thinking about PoE than any of us), so there is a reason for the large amount of RNG present. They could easily give us an idea of the odds for links, too, if they wanted.

I would want to understand their reasoning for this design choice before discarding it.

They wanted godly gear to be near unattainable is their main reason iirc

My final point here, is there is a big difference between theory and practice. Obviously GGG thought hard about it, but practice and theory are 2 different beasts, and the former rarely leads to the latter, and when it does, it often brings drastic side effects.

One even has to ask the merit of making end game gear unattainable in something like standard league as something thats worth trying to do, given the drastic side effects that such a goal brings

EDIT: You also have to understand that GGG made an epic forum post, a video, and a big deal around bartering and crafting. The whole reason behind orbs is they wanted people to craft and barter their items, and not emulate what happened with D3. Ironically the opposite is happening, because for the vast majority of the population, its more efficient to use orbs as a currency rather than an as an item that has implicit value, and bartering is pretty much non existant as we move to an established economy that mirrors what happens in D3