[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

So, I've been mostly successful with this build for this League, as my first time back in the game in a few years (last time I played was... Legacy?)

Level 92
Awakened Level 7 (so far)
Reasonably able to do T16 (have to watch some modifiers)
Managed a Cortex clear, and an 82 Mastermind kill.

My two biggest issues are high survivability and Blight encounters/maps.

Survivability is generally fine against most enemies. It is some bosses, Metamorphs, and select mods (Monsters have +2 Projectiles), that just utterly wreck me, and I can't think of many ways to improve, short of getting ahold of a better annointment (or a flat-out shaped amulet, which is pricy), which leads to my other issue...

Blight encounters and maps... I have yet to succeed in a Blighted map, and Blight encounters in normal maps are entirely dependant on whether I get favourable pathing or not. Is there something I am missing in how this build handles them? Channeling seems so very counter-designed to clicking towers.

Profile should be public, so any feedback would be appreciated.

Frigidiva would be my spin-to-win lady. As I realize the online profile lacks a lot of key info, here is a pastebin of my PoB: https://pastebin.com/dPS8ibGB

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ZeroEdgeir escribió:

Frigidiva would be my spin-to-win lady. As I realize the online profile lacks a lot of key info, here is a pastebin of my PoB: https://pastebin.com/dPS8ibGB

OK, so lets see your stats:

Intelligence: 1795
ES: 8531

Both values are kinda low for end-game (in your case T16 Metamorphs, Blight maps), especially the Intelligence value one.

Now let's see what you miss in your gear/skill tree:

-No duration cluster allocated (Potency of will cluster) - huge dps loose
-No Aspect of the Spider aura used - huge dps loose and also defense loose
-No Tranquility anoint on the amulet - huge dps loose

You path to Prodigal Perfection instead pathing to jewel slot under Ghost Reaver (socket there one of your rare jewels) and allocate a Fertile Mind in socket jewel near Minion Instability instead of that rare jewel to convert those +30 Dex which are already allocated and useless atm.

Same thing with those +30 Dex allocated near Wicked Ward, they are useless unless converted to Int with a Fertile Mind in the jewel socket near CI (instead of that rare jewel already socketed there)

In Templar area (near Holy Dominium) instead of socketing a Brute Force there to convert all the Str in the range to Int you socketed again a rare jewel.

Now about the gear:

- you lack 20% quality applied with Intrinsic catalyst over your amulet, belt, rings to raise the value of your Intelligence/attributes modifiers from these items.

- your chest lacks 12% increased intelligence and 6% increased attributes- for end game action a Shaper or Crusader Vaal Regalia with 500+ ES and those 2 suffixes should be a primary goal to set.

- also Astramentis is a decent amulet to start with but for end game content, a Crusader one with at least T1% increased intelligence, 1% damage per 15 int and some + ES/% increased ES prefixes would be a way much better option. If you get one with a free suffix you can also craft Aspect of the Spider on it.

- your helmet has decent ES (let's say :))but it lacks at least 50+ Intelligence mod

You should understand that Intelligence is the most important stat for this build, and to be efficient in end-game you should try to stack as much possible Intelligence as possible from + Intelligence/+Attributes and % increased Intelligence/% increased Attributes mods

Aiming for 2200+ Intelligence and at least 9-10K ES should be a goal to be able to play entire end game content with no issues

So, it seems PoB was never updated to support Catalysts, my belt is at +20% Attribute, Amulet is presently +5% (working on it as I get them).

Tranquility has been outside my price-range the whole league, and being unable to successfully complete Blight encounters really puts a damper on getting towards the oils myself as well.

I was not aware the Duration effect boosted damage output (not well explained in the base guide), I can make adjustments for that. I had taken the +30 Dex nodes much earlier on, likely don't need them anymore for skill requirements.

Similarly, I can adjust for a few jewel swaps.

As to getting Influenced gear going... that has been the whole luck-vs-price matter. Rarely lucky enough to see the right type, and the price for them on trade is exceedingly steep.

Will see what I can do to improve with what limited currency I got left.

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lilianmarius escribió:

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ZeroEdgeir escribió:

Frigidiva would be my spin-to-win lady. As I realize the online profile lacks a lot of key info, here is a pastebin of my PoB: https://pastebin.com/dPS8ibGB

Aiming for 2200+ Intelligence and at least 9-10K ES should be a goal to be able to play entire end game content with no issues

I can only say for myself, but for me the sweet spots was at 2k Int and around 8.5k ES. It is enough for all the content facetanking most things except the predictable one shots. The reasons i die is now more or less my own fault, not seeing that iam bleeding, corrupted blood or ground effects i can't see because of the ice storm xD.

I craft stuff myself, have everything 2 times so you can steady upgrade things.

Well, with the inital pointers lilianmarius provided, I already got an extra 330 ES (8874) and over 100 Int (1906), from some changes in my passive tree.

Realized I could at least afford to annoint Prodigal Perfection in place of Wisdom of the Glade, which is a net DPS gain. Had an extra Brute Force and Fertile Mind, so socketed them accordingly. Got the 3 Duration nodes near the start of Scion.

So now, it is just moving on to getting the very expensive gear upgrades.

Just glad I got lucky and was gifted my Watcher's Eye by a streamer, for helping him get a couple Sirus kills for the League (basically using 2 of my spawns).

EDIT: Realized, unless I get more Dex and likely some Str elsewhere, I cannot even swap out Astramentis presently, or I cannot use any of my green or red gems. So that is going to be the last slot I look to upgrade.

Hey Lilian (or anyone interested), anything you see in my PoB that I should do different?

https://pastebin.com/c7Y21Mjj

I can't seem to get Aspect of Spider anywhere (new rings too expensive and my rings are decent already), and I can't afford to get a body armour slot with all the +%int. Mine has high ES and some int, so it's satisfactory. To upgrade would be like 40+ ex that I just don't have.

Same goes for -9% cold pen on a helmet. They are like 20+ ex and I can't afford it.

I get +220 base ES regen from Stone Golem + helmet enchant, which is significant and very noticeable, especially combined with +2% that kicks in on boots when hit.

I get consecrated ground every time I'm crit with the Edict of Light enchant on gloves, which is awesome, and happens virtually every time I get touched.

And I like the Holy Flame Totem for it's utility... instant consecrated ground anywhere/anytime I like, even if i'm out of sulphur flask charges. This means instant removal of curses, ailments, and like +750 ES regen, of course.

I do need to upgrade my sulphur flask, I know, but Bottled Faith is like 20ex, which again I don't have.

Other than that, can you see anything you would change or easy upgrade?

And I'm working on Awakened gems, especially spell cascade(~15ex is nuts for this), but they too are crazy expensive, so don't have any yet.


Also, do you like controlled destruction or elemental focus more?

I like having chill up nearly fulltime. I'm worried that elemental focus will reduce that. I swap Arctic Armour (bosses) and Herald of Ice (clearing), too. So chill for me comes from Icestorm shards chilled ground, and Vortex from CWDT. If I add elemental focus to WI staff, do I lose chill from Icestorm? Not sure what to do here.


Thanks for any advice!

Guys, what leveling skill combinations are you going to use in 3.10?
I really dont like mines, what are some good alternatives to level from lvl 2-4 to lvl 40?

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MrNonamer escribió:

Guys, what leveling skill combinations are you going to use in 3.10?
I really dont like mines, what are some good alternatives to level from lvl 2-4 to lvl 40?

Good old Freezing Pulse (you need to create a witch char first to get it from first town though) and maybe Winter Orb - available at level 28

IceStorm chill efect comes from chilling ground and not from ice shards so EF in staff doesn't affect the chilling capability when used in staff.

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Elsupercar escribió:

^^^ Speaking of being stationary, is there some trick to staying in a safe place while also channeling to put damage on a boss with cyclone? It feels so much better than winter orb during clear, but I'm finding bosses REALLY unsafe. I'm hoping there's a better solution than just to run a weapon swap with winter orb for bosses so I can stay out of danger zones and mouse over the boss to channel damage. I was hoping holding shift would just let me spin in place and move my mouse cursor over the boss, but no such luck.

Like lilian replied - its mostly about getting used to it. I have learned the hard way. From many deaths I can tell that most of them are because I did not pay attention to monster/boss mechanics, bleed effects, ground effects such as chilled/burning, & DoT effects overall.

Other times I have been undergeared or just rolled mods that are too powerful for my stats/skill level.

Some bosses that I've found hard (where I don't really know their mechanics) I kind of kite back and forth with cyclone holding my cursor as much over the boss as possible.

Some monsters to look out for:
* Spikers/Porcupines (spike on death), them spikes deal high physical damage when they die and stacks with other spikes.
* Tentacle Miscreations, they shoot a spine volley with phys/fire hybrid damage at the rate of a machine gun. Can be lethal if you get caught off guard in a corridor and with +monster dmg mods. (Poorjoy's Asylum RIP)

You also have to keep in mind that this build is reliant on leech. So make sure to keep Icestorms raining on bosses/mobs as much as you can to sustain max ES leech. Offense is your best defense in this regard.

Everything can kill you in this game, and if you don't know how to avoid it you will die. If not I feel I would have been close to lvl 100 by now! :-}

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ZeroEdgeir escribió:

So, I've been mostly successful with this build for this League, as my first time back in the game in a few years (last time I played was... Legacy?)

Level 92
Awakened Level 7 (so far)
Reasonably able to do T16 (have to watch some modifiers)
Managed a Cortex clear, and an 82 Mastermind kill.

My two biggest issues are high survivability and Blight encounters/maps.

Survivability is generally fine against most enemies. It is some bosses, Metamorphs, and select mods (Monsters have +2 Projectiles), that just utterly wreck me, and I can't think of many ways to improve, short of getting ahold of a better annointment (or a flat-out shaped amulet, which is pricy), which leads to my other issue...

Blight encounters and maps... I have yet to succeed in a Blighted map, and Blight encounters in normal maps are entirely dependant on whether I get favourable pathing or not. Is there something I am missing in how this build handles them? Channeling seems so very counter-designed to clicking towers.

You have reached farther than me in some regards and I am lvl 95. :)
Some Metamorph skills are very lethal. Soul Barrage for instance deals way high damage esp. with multiple proectiles (same as sidearea map boss in Control Blocks Act 10). And this Firebomb skill from the boss (Uruk Baleh) in Lighthouse map has oneshot me more than once in metamorph form. I haven't died from a metamorph in a long while though after I started paying attention to what skills each sample has and in which slot they go. And if I am unsure I just dash out of range when it shapeshifts.

Personally I find these map mods the most challenging and esp. when they're combined with eachother, or when I use a sextant mod that stacks with increased damage taken:
* players have % less recovery rate of life and energy shield (applies to recharge/regen/leech - all 3)
* increased monster/boss damage/extra fire/cold/lightning damage
* -maximum player resistances
* cursed with vulnerability/elemental weakness

Of course some maps mods apply differently based on the map and the combination of mods. High extra monster fire damage might not do anything if there are no monsters with fire damage on the map.

These map mods can be easily negated, kelvynn already covered this but anyway:
- Elemental reflect - just use sextant mod or sibyl's lament/yugul pantheon and shaper ring with -ele reflect dmg taken.
- Players cannot regenerate mana - enduring mana flask.
- Any curses - use of warding flask.
- Area has patches of burning ground - not super hard but can be lethal in the wrong places or if you alt-tab at the wrong place like a noob. Use Abberath pantheon to become immune.

As blighted maps go I have been able to complete lower red tier maps so far. I haven't got any high red tier maps so haven't tried those yet. Spell Cascade and Awakened Spell Cascade really helps out here. And placing relevant towers at the right places are obviously a key to keeping the mobs in check. I have even cleared them low tier red maps without using any damage dealing towers (just using the green towers that empower you and weaken the mobs as well as the brown ones that slow the mobs - with awakened SC). The FPS drop using spell cascade in blighted maps is a pain in the... GPU though. And that with having to stop cycloning for upgrading towers also makes it harder to sustain DPS. But they're very much doable, obviously!

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ZeroEdgeir escribió:

I was not aware the Duration effect boosted damage output (not well explained in the base guide), I can make adjustments for that. I had taken the +30 Dex nodes much earlier on, likely don't need them anymore for skill requirements.

This build is highly dependent on Intelligence:
- The Whispering Ice scales with % increased int & increased spell damage per 10 int
- Icestorm scales with base cold damage per 10 int & additional duration per 100 int
- % increased int & attributes on belt, amulet, body armour & helmet also scale with int

I made a mistake when I was about to start with this build to look at picking more of the % increased damage/cold damage/spell damage nodes on the passive tree instead of int nodes. But this was based on not having 2000+ Int. High int is better in the end. Aside from more DPS, it also increases your ES as well as mana (in turn more ES from Watcher's Eye clarity mod & Arcane Will skill tree node).

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SkylerOG escribió:

I can't seem to get Aspect of Spider anywhere (new rings too expensive and my rings are decent already), and I can't afford to get a body armour slot with all the +%int. Mine has high ES and some int, so it's satisfactory. To upgrade would be like 40+ ex that I just don't have.

Same goes for -9% cold pen on a helmet. They are like 20+ ex and I can't afford it.

And I like the Holy Flame Totem for it's utility... instant consecrated ground anywhere/anytime I like, even if i'm out of sulphur flask charges. This means instant removal of curses, ailments, and like +750 ES regen, of course.

And I'm working on Awakened gems, especially spell cascade(~15ex is nuts for this), but they too are crazy expensive, so don't have any yet.

Also, do you like controlled destruction or elemental focus more?

I like having chill up nearly fulltime. I'm worried that elemental focus will reduce that. I swap Arctic Armour (bosses) and Herald of Ice (clearing), too. So chill for me comes from Icestorm shards chilled ground, and Vortex from CWDT. If I add elemental focus to WI staff, do I lose chill from Icestorm? Not sure what to do here.


Thanks for any advice!

You've got a crafted mod suffix on your boots and your amulet that you could swap aspect of the spider with. Although I would get better boots before doing so. Other than that some of your gear is better than mine so I can't complain.

I bought my -9% cold pene helmet for less than 1 exa. But I have one with less ES.

Curse removal from Holy Flame Totem sounds interesting actually. Might try it out.

I have all awakened gems relevant to this build and I doubt I spent more than 20 ex total on them. Spell Cascade for 15 ex sounds too expensive or do you want a leveled one?

Use both CD & EF. If you have to pick one EF has more dmg.
EF doesn't reduce chill, it only reduces the chance to cause ailments - with the supported skill - Icestorm in this case (or cyclone if you for some reason have added elemental attack damage somewhere). Ailments, chill, in this case, need to deal a high damage per hit in order to proc. Icestorm deals fairly low damage per hit, but high DPS due to a lot of hits over time in an area.
Chill & chilled ground is gained naturally by Icestorm & Vortex with bonechill support as well as Frostbomb on CWDT, and skitterbots if you use them. So, no you don't have to worry about it I think.
As for AA and HoI - the chilled ground from AA is probably not necessary and just overkill and doesn't do anything else when clearing. HoI adds relatively low dmg to Icestorm because Icestorm effectiveness is only at 30%. The freeze/shatter ailment effect also procs rarely if at all due to low dmg per hit. I would stop using HoI if I were you and swap with skitterbots (way more added dmg due to shock plus additonal autochill aura) or something defensive.

P.S: I don't know if the chilled ground dropped by Icestorm is actually made inert by EF, but the skill description says that the Iceshards cause chill, and in addition chilled ground is created by the skill as well. I think EF only negates the chill on hit ailment effect, but not the chilled ground one. Should be testable on some monster if lilian or someone else doesn't know the deal here. D.S

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SkylerOG escribió:

I can't seem to get Aspect of Spider anywhere (new rings too expensive and my rings are decent already), and I can't afford to get a body armour slot with all the +%int. Mine has high ES and some int, so it's satisfactory. To upgrade would be like 40+ ex that I just don't have.

Same goes for -9% cold pen on a helmet. They are like 20+ ex and I can't afford it.

And I like the Holy Flame Totem for it's utility... instant consecrated ground anywhere/anytime I like, even if i'm out of sulphur flask charges. This means instant removal of curses, ailments, and like +750 ES regen, of course.

And I'm working on Awakened gems, especially spell cascade(~15ex is nuts for this), but they too are crazy expensive, so don't have any yet.

Also, do you like controlled destruction or elemental focus more?

I like having chill up nearly fulltime. I'm worried that elemental focus will reduce that. I swap Arctic Armour (bosses) and Herald of Ice (clearing), too. So chill for me comes from Icestorm shards chilled ground, and Vortex from CWDT. If I add elemental focus to WI staff, do I lose chill from Icestorm? Not sure what to do here.


Thanks for any advice!

You've got a crafted mod suffix on your boots and your amulet that you could swap aspect of the spider with. Although I would get better boots before doing so. Other than that some of your gear is better than mine so I can't complain.

I bought my -9% cold pene helmet for less than 1 exa. But I have one with less ES.

Curse removal from Holy Flame Totem sounds interesting actually. Might try it out.

I have all awakened gems relevant to this build and I doubt I spent more than 20 ex total on them. Spell Cascade for 15 ex sounds too expensive or do you want a leveled one?

Use both CD & EF. If you have to pick one EF has more dmg.
EF doesn't reduce chill, it only reduces the chance to cause ailments - with the supported skill - Icestorm in this case (or cyclone if you for some reason have added elemental attack damage somewhere). Ailments, chill, in this case, need to deal a high damage per hit in order to proc. Icestorm deals fairly low damage per hit, but high DPS due to a lot of hits over time in an area.
Chill & chilled ground is gained naturally by Icestorm & Vortex with bonechill support as well as Frostbomb on CWDT, and skitterbots if you use them. So, no you don't have to worry about it I think.
As for AA and HoI - the chilled ground from AA is probably not necessary and just overkill and doesn't do anything else when clearing. HoI adds relatively low dmg to Icestorm because Icestorm effectiveness is only at 30%. The freeze/shatter ailment effect also procs rarely if at all due to low dmg per hit. I would stop using HoI if I were you and swap with skitterbots (way more added dmg due to shock plus additonal autochill aura) or something defensive.

P.S: I don't know if the chilled ground dropped by Icestorm is actually made inert by EF, but the skill description says that the Iceshards cause chill, and in addition chilled ground is created by the skill as well. I think EF only negates the chill on hit ailment effect, but not the chilled ground one. Should be testable on some monster if lilian or someone else doesn't know the deal here. D.S

I have those +13 to attributes mods on my boots and amulet because without them my dex would go below the 111 (and 125 for awakened gems) requirements for current 20/20 green gems. And if I got rid of one of them and took a +30 dex passive node instead (so I could add aspect of spider crafted suffix), then my str would be below my dex, which would disqualify the "cannot be ignited" feature on the Cyclopean. Not to mention cost me yet another passive point.

Needless to say, it's been difficult trying to figure out how to reach 125 dex without going over str, and without having to waste more than 1 passive on a +30 str node, which I already had to do as is.

If you got any ideas, I'd love to hear it.

I also don't have the ability to craft aspect of spider yet on my bench. I'm still quite a noob. Just returned after a year off, and even when I did play a year ago, it was only for maybe 8-9 months prior. I was only just learning how to craft anything of significance then.


I'm on Standard server, btw, so I promise any decent -9% cold pen helmet with some int, resist, and 200+ ES is easily 10+ ex.

Same with a lvl 1 Awakened Spell Cascade. I asked someone who had no price listed on one if he'd sell it to me for 5ex and he laughed and asked me if i was kidding, then told me 20 ex. The cheapest one listed right now is 17 ex. It's crazy, but that's Standard for ya, I guess.

Go look up the boots. Any boots with 200+ ES, 30% movement, resists, and 40+ int are like 50+ ex. It's ridiculous.


How would you use both CD and EF?

I have (clearing staff) Cyclone, CWC, Energy Leech, Cold Pen, CD, and Spell Cascade. Then on (boss staff) I have Cyclone, CWC, Energy Leech, Cold Pen, CD, and Conc Effect.

What do you suggest swapping out for Elemental Focus if not Controlled Destruction?


Can I have Stone Golem and Skitterbots at same time? Stone Golem, with my helmet enchant, is crazy +ES regen. Don't want to lose that.

And how effective are skitterbots vs bosses?


Also, I have Frostbomb outside my 20/20 CWDT, and only Vortex inside there with Bonechill. I like to target FB's, and use FB and Flamedash to both proc Arcane Surge. This way I don't have to hit FD for AS when I want/need to be stationary for certain fights.


And lastly, it looks like Lilian confirmed that EF does not effect chill created by Icestorm, so that's good.


Thanks for all the help. I'm enjoying my return to the game. I love min/max'ing builds like this. I just wish the upgrades weren't so freaking expensive. I'm to that point where nearly everything else I need/want to upgrade is an extreme cost increase and out of my currency realm.