Stupid logic against nerfs, logout macros etc...

^Wonder if we can extent that to "it's on www.pathofexile.com"

@Sarno, echo chamber doing echo chambery things is a nice tl;dr.

Insult opposition, create a mob on your side, then take pride in nobody responding to defend the contrary point, it's fine.....

Peace,

-Boem-

"

KZA escribió:

There's a pretty moronic argument that takes on a variety of forms that has been floating around for many years, and I think it's time we put it to rest:

"If you don't like OP skills, don't play them, but don't ruin my fun by nerfing them."

"If you don't like logout macros, don't use them, but my using them doesn't affect you."

"If you don't like the auction house, then don't use it, but I want easy trading and it doesn't affect you."

For the people who complain about nerfs and AH, they are regularly ridiculed anyway. As a whole, I have some faith that the experienced community understands why the stances on these two things are as they are.

As for logout macro, I literally couldn't agree with you more.

Here's the thing, people play HC for two reasons: Either they want a challenging experience with permadeath for their own enjoyment, or they want to flail around their E-Dick and brag that they are better than "SC scrubs".

The first category don't use a logout macro, it would literally defeat the whole point of playing HC for them.

Which then leaves us with the second group, meaning that all the people who say "Me using logout macros don't affect you" are the types who want to brag that they are better than SC players without actually having the risks associated with HC.

If you ask me, your character should stay standing in place for a few seconds after you logout and GGG should put out an official statement that logout macros are banned. Utterly ridiculous that a developer would turn a blind eye to this kind of thing let alone condone it.

smh.

The problem with banning a log out macro is that there are way too many times where you're forced to because of connectivity issues and they don't want to penalize that type of disconnect. Since you can fake that type of connectivity issue, they can't penalize you for doing it purposefully... there would be no way to tell the difference.

So the only reasonable solution is to not worry about it.

The people saying "if you don't like it, don't do it" aren't saying that they like it or not... they've just accepted the reality of the situation.

The use of this to avoid deserved penalties is minor compared to the number of undeserved penalties that have been avoided by having the game stop as soon as possible on disconnect/logout.

"

Shagsbeard escribió:

The problem with banning a log out macro is that there are way too many times where you're forced to because of connectivity issues and they don't want to penalize that type of disconnect. Since you can fake that type of connectivity issue, they can't penalize you for doing it purposefully... there would be no way to tell the difference.

So the only reasonable solution is to not worry about it.

The people saying "if you don't like it, don't do it" aren't saying that they like it or not... they've just accepted the reality of the situation.

The use of this to avoid deserved penalties is minor compared to the number of undeserved penalties that have been avoided by having the game stop as soon as possible on disconnect/logout.

mmm. I suppose I simmered over a bit there.

It still feels like the official stance on this is a relic from the desync days though.

Im an HC player I use macro log out and never killed shaper...

But pretty much every single argument for people stating logout macro should be removed is so invalid....

1. its allowed so the OP stating the fact that every1 can use them, is infact valid...
Almost no1 finds Kaoms heart...so if i find it i cant use it either?
Seems weird, if its allowed than its allowed, and its a happy edition to a casual like me who want the thrill of dying means start over

But i do not want to die every 5 minutes, which will happen in this game, becuz the game is very random in terms of damage, you can have 9k hp and 90 all resistance and still get killed in matter of seconds....

My 2nd and last argument....
I use log out macro and still die multiple times each league, meaning the macro doesnt really give me god mode, it gives me just a 2nd chance and 3rd chance........this game is so complex in terms of stuff that happens, and stats. That casuals like me will never learn all aspects, so the logout macro will help me prolong my gameplay

I'm feeling froggy this morning, got some time to kill while the laundry wraps up. Let's break this down, just because. It's useless, I know, but I'm feeling it so I'm doing it.

"

KZA escribió:

There's a pretty moronic argument that takes on a variety of forms that has been floating around for many years, and I think it's time we put it to rest:

Great start. That's not going to polarize your results at all, poke people into fight or flight (or sycophantic and useless "+1" replies). This is absolutely the way to start a thread trying to argue a point.

Not.

"

KZA escribió:

"If you don't like OP skills, don't play them, but don't ruin my fun by nerfing them."

The assumption you're making here - and it's both a critical one and a false one - is that you consider your opinion of the line between 'Powerful' and 'Overpowered' to be an objective and obvious standard. That it's both blindingly clear to the entire playerbase what 'Overpowered' means, and also that the entire playerbase shares a single unified view of what OP is. The only thing you're attributing to personal opinion is 'degree of willingness to use overpowered thing."

The argument you're actually parroting is "if you think something is overpowered, don't use it." That is a different argument altogether which takes as a presupposition the fact that the argument's stater DOES NOT AGREE with your definition of 'Overpowered'.

"

KZA escribió:

"If you don't like logout macros, don't use them, but my using them doesn't affect you."

Logout macros, much like any other form of macro, cannot readily be identified by the system and are very difficult to police. Because macro users exist, Grinding Gear is forced to work around the fact of their existence. This is less an argument and more an unfortunate fact of nature - Grinding Gear cannot eliminate logout macros, so they have to account for them.

Believe me, I'm all aboard for considering macro use cheating. I hate macros to death, there is absolutely no difference in kind between macros and shit like botting or automated scripts. But you couldn't convince macro users of that in a thousand years, and since automated cheat detection systems can't handle macros, we're stuck with it. So pick your battles there, methinks.

"

KZA escribió:

"If you don't like the auction house, then don't use it, but I want easy trading and it doesn't affect you."

Nobody has ever once made this argument. Nobody's this dumb. Everybody knows an auction house would be a sweeping game-wide thing. The argument people make (over and over again) is that the sweeping game-wide changes an auction house would make would be an improvement to the game. They're more than likely wrong, but that's still the argument they make, and it's completely irrelevant to your main point of "discussion".

"

KZA escribió:

By this logic, why not provide a godmode option in the menu? Why not have items that oneshot Shaper sold by vendors for a wisdom scroll? Why not enable the ability to start with a level 100 character if desired? Why not make Mirrors of Kalandra as common as a chaos orb? Why not give us access to console commands to generate any items we want? If you don't like it, then just don't use it.

Again - you're equating your personal preferred level of challenge with an objective statement of The Best Level of Challenge for PoE. And also making an absurdist argument for the sake of ridiculing people, but hey - what else is new in GD. When people want insightful discussions with helpful people about Path of Exile, they post in GH&D. When they wanna shitpost so hard it clogs the septic system, they wander over to GD.

"

KZA escribió:

If you still can't see why the above logic is utterly stupid, I don't know that you'd have the mental capacity to understand an explanation.

Every time you do this you undermine your own thread. I get that you're not looking for an actual discussion, you're just looking for brainless 'this' or '+1' replies and shit, but come on man. At least try and put some effort into it.

"

KZA escribió:

Put simply, a balanced and challenging game is the most rewarding to play

This is obvious and self-explanatory. Now: provide an objective statement of what 'balanced and challenging' is, remembering that your statement must hold true for everyone from everybody's-favorite-Wraeclast-superhero Mathil to somebody exactly one month into the game, learning the ropes solo self-found.

Don't mind us going about our lives while you think about it. We're just hoping to not die of old age before you're done.

"

KZA escribió:

and having access to OP skills, items or "permitted exploits" makes using anything less powerful feel bad and unfun.

Again: define 'Overpowered'. You keep making this argument as if the definition of 'Overpowered' was objectively obvious. If it was, would we be here? The forum can bitch and complain about physical conversion all they like, but every time I turn around I'm seeing streamers debuting builds that do as much damage as physical conversion builds, if not more, using wacky jank they just felt like pushing a little harder than people usually do.

Let's face it - people don't bag on physical conversion because it's too strong. They bag on physical conversion because it's easy, and because you can get an Elementalist BV build going on peanuts and still have access to the game. People don't like that. They want you to have to play the market and come up with fifty exalts to blow on some weridboy melee build before you can get past yellow maps, because the forum playerbase are the most vocal element of the game, and also the most attached to the "prestige" of doing things most other players can't/don't. It doesn't matter than the better measure of skill in Path of Exile isn't "can you kill [X] boss?", it's "what can you kill [X] boss with?" Everybody wants to be able to kill Uber Elder, and then they want nobody else to do the same.

That's not a problem of the game being overpowered, that's a problem of people being weenies. Deciding whether something is actually overpowered or not requires more evidence than we-the-forumites generally have access to. So. if you don't like physical conversion because you think it's too easy?

Play something else. Or play phys conversion, but challenge yourself to do it better than most people do and push the build as hard as it can go.

"

KZA escribió:

This is the same faulty logic behind old classic arguments like:

"You dont need an offical hardcore mode, just delete your character when you die."

"You dont need SSF mode, just don't group with other players and it's the exact same thing."

Sigh

OTL

If you truly don't understand why SSF and Hardcore exist as their own separate things and are equating them to a balance discussion, then...well, let's not go there. We've had enough of that in this thread as it is.

"

Fapmobile escribió:

Logout macro obviously doesn't effect other people, but an auction house would have an effect in the whole economy. Same with op skills making other skill less desirable.

You're comparing weird things here and also calling people stupid. Not very nice of you my son.

It does affect other people. Check your brain to your nearest doctor.

If a person can use log out macro to achieve what? To avoid death and play further in progress.

How the hell doesnt it affect everyone in that league? He will get shaper items, watchers eyes, any loot that he couldnt get without log out macro.

Man, people act so dumb all the time.

It affects the market and it affects the prices and thus your ass.

Easy solution: more nerfs to everything top streamers play. That's what devs should do.

I'm jsut glad i abused all the OP stuff while i could while whinners complained :P



Also by your initial post it seems you are not aware that part of the multiplayer experience and social experience in video games in general is about comparing your own experience with others. Since we are social by nature it does indeed affect almost everyone unless you are mentally strong and don't constantly compare yourself vs others. I suggest you read some psycology books tbh. You'll find there a lot of empiric knowledge about behaviour that describes accurately what you see on multiplayer games.

"

Shagsbeard escribió:

The problem with banning a log out macro is that there are way too many times where you're forced to because of connectivity issues and they don't want to penalize that type of disconnect. Since you can fake that type of connectivity issue, they can't penalize you for doing it purposefully... there would be no way to tell the difference.

So the only reasonable solution is to not worry about it.

The people saying "if you don't like it, don't do it" aren't saying that they like it or not... they've just accepted the reality of the situation.

The use of this to avoid deserved penalties is minor compared to the number of undeserved penalties that have been avoided by having the game stop as soon as possible on disconnect/logout.

The issue with this is the standard logout macros uses the logout command from the menu. Which is by far faster than just disconnecting(it terminates the connection directly iirc, thus the time until you are save is basically only your latency). If you disconnect on the other hand the server waits some time until your connection times out(which by its nature has to be longer, else you would "logout" everytime your ping is unstable).

The fix now is easy, don't prohibit logout macros, just equalize the time between the logout command and the server timeout for a disconnect. With this noone with connectivity issues would be punished, but you couldnt abuse it anymore.

"

Temeritas escribió:

The issue with this is the standard logout macros uses the logout command from the menu. Which is by far faster than just disconnecting(it terminates the connection directly iirc, thus the time until you are save is basically only your latency). If you disconnect on the other hand the server waits some time until your connection times out(which by its nature has to be longer, else you would "logout" everytime your ping is unstable).

This is a combination of objectively false claims and bad advice.

First of all, unless I am very much mistaken, the most commonly used macro is Lutbot - and the reason for this is TCP Disconnect. Lutbot doesn't do anything inside the game client; it uses Windows DLL files to close the socket, terminating the connection.

The best case scenario for using the game client is that Lutbot is faster because it doesn't sit in the queue of instructions the client is processing. Worst case scenario for using the game client is the client hangs and no longer responds to user input, in which case Lutbot is more reliable. Under no circumstances would I expect the game client to be faster.

Also, my understanding - and I have researched PoE macros quite a lot - is that one which operates by opening the game menu, moving the mouse cursor to a specific location, then clicking on the button would be against the rules and could result in an account ban.