Caster vs Melee unbalances around lvl 70s

That wasn't a statement just about you, it's the overall feeling I have when reading the feedback section atm, and this thread is quite a nice example of it.

I don't know how you build your casters to have "pathetic survability", but any caster can potentially have quite crazy amounts of ES with not a lot of investment from the tree compared to melees.

"

Moosifer escribió:

"

ScrotieMcB escribió:

Think you've got this backwards. RNGesus doesn't care what the flavor of the month is, he drops all kinds of items... and if anything, more people equipping melee weapons would mean less available for trade.

No, if there aren't many people playing melee there's less stuff available because people are unsure of what's usable. GG gear filters in but you aren't getting these cheap because everyone knows they are good. 1 chaos gear is sold by people who understand the item is a good gap filler.

I don't buy this argument. At all. Melee being popular isn't going to make more weapons drop; casters being unpopular isn't going to make less wands drop. And anything that seems good, players are going to stash away; it's not like players don't have shitloads of stash tabs by this point.

"

Fruz escribió:

I don't know how you build your casters to have "pathetic survability", but any caster can potentially have quite crazy amounts of ES with not a lot of investment from the tree compared to melees.

I don't refer what is potentially available, but what is possible using the same gear investment. At the moment melee outperforms casters both DPS and survivability wise on average gear level.

I added my gear comparison for 2 of my characters. Reave ranger has about 8K Reave tooltip, 10K EVA, 4K HP when EK shadow has 5K EK tooltip, 5,5K ES, 10K armor. Yet, shadow still feels fragile compared to ranger...

"

Fruz escribió:

That wasn't a statement just about you, it's the overall feeling I have when reading the feedback section atm, and this thread is quite a nice example of it.

I don't know how you build your casters to have "pathetic survability", but any caster can potentially have quite crazy amounts of ES with not a lot of investment from the tree compared to melees.

Could it be true that you actually might be wrong and that some of the posters in the feedback do have a point? ;)

So i actually dont really see how this thread is 'quite a nice example', but what I could remind you is that in my starting post i'm talking about casters between lvl 65 and 80, wich is actually before ES can be used as a good way of tanking.

It's more or less a whining trades about casters vs melee, so yes, it is a good example.

ES can be used in a good way before lvl 80 ....
Finding 500~600 ES chests is perfectly manageable before lvl 80, and it will give a good ES pool already.

It's getting a little off-topic though, this is true.

"

Fruz escribió:

Finding 500~600 ES chests is perfectly manageable before lvl 80, and it will give a good ES pool already.

You rather meant "trading"? Because the best ES chest I found in 11 months has about 500 ES and I found 2-3 more 400 ES grade only...

So "finding" is rather less than perfectly manageable.

No, I meant finding.
Findable in lvl 66 maps.

It's even easier by trading.

I found that quite recently in lvl 66~67 maps for example ( not MFing ) :


Having a good amount of ES with a 400/450 ES chest is manageable also anyway so ...

"

Fruz escribió:

It's more or less a whining trades about casters vs melee, so yes, it is a good example.

ES can be used in a good way before lvl 80 ....
Finding 500~600 ES chests is perfectly manageable before lvl 80, and it will give a good ES pool already.

It's getting a little off-topic though, this is true.

You act like casters dont (try to) trade like melee characters do and that all casters (because they are from another planet or w/e) dont know how to gather gear. Yet you do ignore all arguments (and common sense) that challenge your point of view.

And yet again you seem to fail to properly understand what this topic is actually about with your 500-600 ES argument: Its not about actually finding the gear, its about getting to the point a caster can properly farm and thus find/buy the gear.
Even if you DO somehow get such a chest, dps is still way too bad for effectively farm higher levels like melee characters currently can.

"

MissBum escribió:

Currently there seems to be a pretty big dps unbalance around lvl 65-80 between melee builds and caster builds. Btw, after alot of farming it gets pretty balanced again at 80+

Melee just does alot more dps around this level, wich is obvious if you run maps.
I think this is because caster builds depend mostly on gem level, while melee classes depend on physical damage on their items. High dps items (for that level) are relatively easy to get, while getting a gem to lvl 20 takes very long.

This makes it extra difficult for casters because less dps also means that it is harder to farm while they already depend on gear alot for tanking wich you need for survival at higher level.


As i already said, at 80+ this is not as much of an issue anymore, because at those levels the gems are probably at level 20. But i do think the unbalance before that moment should be fixed, especially since thats the time people mainly start running maps with groups, and the insignificant addition of the casters (except for maybe a bit of freezing) is annoying.

Maybe the xp requirements for the higher level of gems should be changed, or maybe some quest reward where witches can choose for a gem xp bonus, and melee for a defense bonus?

Thanks for reading!

Interesting quest reward ideas, but don't you agree changing those would have, like, no effect on L70s characters? How many quests are you still doing at L70?

I do think Spectral Throw and the new Scion class colored peoples' experience in the new season. The market moves to supply what's in demand and melee was hot right from the start because of all the new stuff.

*

@Scrotie you're not putting enough value on the dynamism of the economy. If a build (eg. caster) is considered poor, items that are good for the build are demoted in value to match the value of the build. You say players will stash away items that are "good" but the problem is that "good" is not statically defined in a vacuum, it is relative to other items and to the metagame. It evolves as people develop new builds or GGG introduces new stuff.

People don't sell every item they find, only the ones that are the most valuable. So when the demand isn't there then the supply evaporates with it. Last I checked ES+EV hybrid armor was worth the least of any armor type. Accordingly, the supply of ES+EV armor was much softer than other, more popular types of armor. Finding a good piece of AR pure armor was much easier (though more expensive) than ES+EV hybrid armor even though tons more players use AR pure armor.

How can it be that the same amount of good armor is dropping for both types but the one that has a larger sink also has larger supply? Because sellers are filtering items. And the filter is not just an objective power-level-in-a-vacuum filter, it's also how well the item fits into builds that are strong or popular.

"

Fruz escribió:

Having a good amount of ES with a 400/450 ES chest is manageable also anyway so ...

As I wrote few post above, my CI EK shadow has 5,5K ES. And so?

It doesn't change fact, that he seems fragile like sh** comparing to 4K HP melee ranger and fact, that for me there is no point in rolling caster if you want effective, low budget character. For me, not a problem, as I wrote my main characters are melee, I can wait for meta change.