Caster vs Melee unbalances around lvl 70s

Currently there seems to be a pretty big dps unbalance around lvl 65-80 between melee builds and caster builds. Btw, after alot of farming it gets pretty balanced again at 80+

Melee just does alot more dps around this level, wich is obvious if you run maps.
I think this is because caster builds depend mostly on gem level, while melee classes depend on physical damage on their items. High dps items (for that level) are relatively easy to get, while getting a gem to lvl 20 takes very long.

This makes it extra difficult for casters because less dps also means that it is harder to farm while they already depend on gear alot for tanking wich you need for survival at higher level.


As i already said, at 80+ this is not as much of an issue anymore, because at those levels the gems are probably at level 20. But i do think the unbalance before that moment should be fixed, especially since thats the time people mainly start running maps with groups, and the insignificant addition of the casters (except for maybe a bit of freezing) is annoying.

Maybe the xp requirements for the higher level of gems should be changed, or maybe some quest reward where witches can choose for a gem xp bonus, and melee for a defense bonus?

Thanks for reading!

Well the opposite is true too. Melee requires a weapon upgrade while caster just plays and gets stronger as they level. If you're doing a week race or a new league, can't find/afford a new weapon you're pretty screwed as melee. Leveling up your gems is not going to be a major difference like it will with spells.

One has higher potential, the other is more consistent. Seems balanced when you think about it.

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Moosifer escribió:

Melee requires a weapon upgrade while caster just plays and gets stronger as they level. If you're doing a week race or a new league, can't find/afford a new weapon you're pretty screwed as melee. Leveling up your gems is not going to be a major difference like it will with spells.

One has higher potential, the other is more consistent. Seems balanced when you think about it.

Is it really though?

Think about how the new leagues developed, especially in the first week after release. With a brand new economy that hasn't been flooded with top-tier weapons, one would expect casters to maintain maximum advantage right then, and then to have that advantage wane as more quality weapons flood the economy. Does that adequately explain events... or were weapon-dependent builds very powerful from the outset?

I agree with you that the concept is balanced, but I don't think the execution of the concept lives up to that expectation.

Are you talking about recently or all time? At the beginning of OB there were very few melee builds because there was a shift towards playing casters/archers. I wasn't playing when anarchy/onslaught started. For release, spectral throw was the hot skill so everyone went with melee weapons rather than casters.

If the majority of the community is playing melee (or using melee weapons at least) more flood the market quicker. And the trend I've always noticed as far back as races in CB, is casters always have a slow start and it's not based on their DPS, it's because of their EHP. Most choose ES/CI which takes a while to get decent values on. Melee's general advantage is their EHP surpasses their DPS at these points so they can handle harder content, just not clear it quickly. Casters on the other hand have generally higher DPS but can't handle the damage so climb up slower.

At least these are my observations from week races and resets in my time playing.

The shorter version, if melee is the flavor of the month, melee starts fast and climbs up fast. If casters are vogue, then melee in as a collective slows down around 70-80.

First, casters do NOT have higher dps around THESE levels, melee often does like 3x the dps (i'm not talking about races now, but in the main game). And i dont mind eHP differences, in general casters should ofcourse have less survivability, but the damage differences should compensate for that wich currently isnt the case.
And since dps is so important for farming, it sort of multiplies the disadvantage wich has (i think) an effect on gameplay that GGG would not prefer.

If you are comparing caster self found to melee who trades ofc there's going to be an imbalance.

Just like a melee player can go buy a weapon a caster can go buy higher lvl gems. It's not fair to compare them in a very mature economy.

The opposite of what you say is true as well. A caster with a 6l and 20/20 gems is much stronger than any self found melee build.

Pick a base line for your argument. If it's fresh economy, casters generally have higher dps, I've seen it many times. If it's mature, casters can have similar dps but it will be more expensive therefore unavailable to new player meanwhile you can get a decent weapon for a chaos.

Also let's keep in mind that spectral throw isn't melee. Find me a self found GS build (of someone who didn't get very lucky) that has 3x the dps of a self found caster.

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Moosifer escribió:

If the majority of the community is playing melee (or using melee weapons at least) more flood the market quicker.

Think you've got this backwards. RNGesus doesn't care what the flavor of the month is, he drops all kinds of items... and if anything, more people equipping melee weapons would mean less available for trade.

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Moosifer escribió:

And the trend I've always noticed as far back as races in CB, is casters always have a slow start and it's not based on their DPS, it's because of their EHP. Most choose ES/CI which takes a while to get decent values on. Melee's general advantage is their EHP surpasses their DPS at these points so they can handle harder content, just not clear it quickly. Casters on the other hand have generally higher DPS but can't handle the damage so climb up slower.

While I definitely agree that ES is the most gear-intensive defense, doesn't this essentially invalidate your original point? If casters tend to be gear-dependent on their EHP, while melee tend to be gear-dependent on the DPS, and EHP is more important for progression, doesn't that mean casters have it worse off as far as gear dependence goes?

You might be right if higher level gems could be farmed (not talking about higher quality). Because casters need both high gems AND gear for being able to farm fast.

You also forget that doing high dps easier means farming gear and orbs is easier.
Btw i'm not talking about endgame here, but at the (important) 65-80 level range. I already stated that this issue isnt there anymore at 80+, but getting there takes way, way longer.

Considering characters developed on span of 11 months and that I try to not trade (not selling, sometimes buy something cheap from self found currency) I not in position that at current meta self-found caster can outperform self-found melee on any stage of leveling...

My most viable caster is way behind my weakest melee regarding survivability and clear time, and my melees are rather tanks than DPS ones...

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MissBum escribió:

And i dont mind eHP differences, in general casters should ofcourse have less survivability, but the damage differences should compensate for that wich currently isnt the case.

No it shouldn't.
Caster have range advantage => positioning advantage and elemental status effect advantages ( which can bring cc, being another positioning advantage ).
Their dps should not be higher, it is the case in other game where caster are much much less tanky than melee ( => mmos ), but this is not possible in PoE where there is a "tankyness minimum" that already goes beyond that : res need to be capped and the health pool must be big enough to survive damage spikes ( not one shot mechanism @Vaal ofc ).

So no, caster's dps should definitely not be higher overall.