What's your favourite type of sword?

yehhh, thought as much but meh, if people can pick lightsabers, I am still picking machete ;)

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blubbber escribió:

silly question, does machete count as sword, or is it more considered a stupidly big knife?
If yes, I would go with machete. Not that I would necessarily pick it if I had to use to defend myself with (if I had, I would pick katana, also my second choice if machete does not count), but having held a few swords and played around with them, none of them made me feel the way the machete did. Not sure how to describe it, the simplicity and weight of it just made it feel 'brutal' and in a way uncomfortable...

The machete acts more or less like an axe. A sword is much more of a precision instrument, which makes it less usable by an untrained person. If you want to pick a weapon which would be effective in untrained arms, a pointy stick is best, an axe, mace or machete can work. A sword, especially a specialized cutting sword like the katana, won't be terribly effective. You need to strike in a very specific manner to cut anything.

Also, no, it's not going to do anything against armor. Completely useless. I'm not talking about full plate either, any decent armor like mail or like what the Samurai had is going to stop a cutting sword with zero damage done to the target and likely with some damage done to the sword itself. You need blunt force trauma or a penetrating edge going through weak points in the armor.

Which begs the question, why were swords so popular throughout history, and the answer is - they were mostly a peacetime and civilian weapon since they are easy to wear, you're unlikely to encounter armored opponents in peacetime and going around with a halberd or pike is going to be a chore, plus people will give you funny looks. In actual battlefields, they were typically sidearms. Easy to wear while you're holding something else with superior range or penetrating power.

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Bars escribió:

The machete acts more or less like an axe. A sword is much more of a precision instrument, which makes it less usable by an untrained person. If you want to pick a weapon which would be effective in untrained arms, a pointy stick is best, an axe, mace or machete can work. A sword, especially a specialized cutting sword like the katana, won't be terribly effective. You need to strike in a very specific manner to cut anything.

very true, a machete or axe is a lot easier to use than a sword if untrained. in untrained hands a sword has not much use, but the topic was limited to swords, otherwise I would have picked ice axes, friggin love my ice axes and at least feel confident in their use...
(also, they look sexy as fuck) ;)


edit, and yes, agree with your edit, but I guess this threat was more about aesthetics than actual use since I guess the number of people on this forum with any actual sword training would be pretty limited.

As far as swords for untrained people go, a rapier would be a good choice. Extremely long range, significant hand protection, stick the pointy end - nice and simple.

If you're going against an armoured opponent, well, you're pretty much fucked, but in theory a longsword used as a hammer or with halfswording has a theoretical chance of doing some damage - although good luck implementing in practice without being a super badass.

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Bars escribió:

As far as swords for untrained people go, a rapier would be a good choice. Extremely long range, significant hand protection, stick the pointy end - nice and simple.

If you're going against an armoured opponent, well, you're pretty much fucked, but in theory a longsword used as a hammer or with halfswording has a theoretical chance of doing some damage - although good luck implementing in practice without being a super badass.

not sure I would agree on the rapier though for untrained use, depends what the opponent has, I think wildly swinging any heavy sword is more likely to do something than a thrusting sword which only really does any damage if you poke something but is pretty easy to dodge/block. at least blocking a swing from a heavy weapon has a chance of knocking someone off balance

too many variables in these types of hypothetical discussions :)

Wild sword swings are:

- unlikely to do any significant, incapacitating damage
- much easier to block and slower than thrusts

A thrust is mechanically simpler, has a longer range and is nowhere as easy to avoid as you're saying it is. Think of it in boxing terms: a swing is like a haymaker, a thrust is like a jab. A haymaker is easy to block, you have to put your hand in its way and the guy will hit his forearm in yours. A jab, well, if you don't have a big-ass glove firmly in front of your head as a shield, it's tricky. Your best bet is moving your head away.

If you simply swing the sword around like a club, it'll perform more or less like a club. You need proper edge alignment and movement for the sword to actually cut anything.


TLDR, I'd stick with a rapier, although in principle I agree with the too many variables part.

As Matt Easton loves to say, it all depends on context. I love his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/scholagladiatoria

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Bars escribió:

Wild sword swings are:

- unlikely to do any significant, incapacitating damage
- much easier to block and slower than thrusts

A thrust is mechanically simpler, has a longer range and is nowhere as easy to avoid as you're saying it is. Think of it in boxing terms: a swing is like a haymaker, a thrust is like a jab. A haymaker is easy to block, you have to put your hand in its way and the guy will hit his forearm in yours. A jab, well, if you don't have a big-ass glove firmly in front of your head as a shield, it's tricky. Your best bet is moving your head away.

If you simply swing the sword around like a club, it'll perform more or less like a club. You need proper edge alignment and movement for the sword to actually cut anything.


TLDR, I'd stick with a rapier, although in principle I agree with the too many variables part.

As Matt Easton loves to say, it all depends on context. I love his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/scholagladiatoria

absolutely (and this is where the variables come in again), for an experienced swordfighter blocking wild swings is much easier than thrusts, for the reasons you mentioned. After 14 years of marital arts training it still makes me cringe how popular haymakers are in movies or among untrained people, there is nothing easier to block than a big-ass haymaker. Most martial arts teach punching in a straight line, it is fast, direct, accurate and very hard to block.

against an untrained opponent though, wild swings can be quite intimidating

TLDR I'd stick with unarmed ;)

about your link, which one of his videos are you referring to, when I went to the page it played the one about fighting multiple opponents, which I am guessing is not the one you are referring to as it is not in the context of this discussion?

There were specialized armor piercing thrusting swords, designed for dealing with plate armor. Made of high carbon enriched steel and very "pointy".

like the Oakeshott 15a type:




or estocs:

Straight line, hook or uppercut, all is well if it's not a haymaker :D

About Matt Easton, it's just a great channel with many informative videos if you're interested in historical weapons. The guy has been a HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) instructor for many years now, on top of having a history degree. He speaks with a lot of common sense backed by practical experience. A word of caution though, seeing too many of his videos will likely ruin movie swordfights for you beyond any hope of repair. Even high-budget productions like LoTR and GoT, movie swordfight choreography is just painful to watch if you know some fencing basics.

Apart from that, this video of his is of particular relevance to this topic, although it's far from the only one:

https://youtu.be/9qJBGlChcXU

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Bars escribió:

Straight line, hook or uppercut, all is well if it's not a haymaker :D

About Matt Easton, it's just a great channel with many informative videos if you're interested in historical weapons. The guy has been a HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) instructor for many years now, on top of having a history degree. He speaks with a lot of common sense backed by practical experience. A word of caution though, seeing too many of his videos will likely ruin movie swordfights for you beyond any hope of repair. Even high-budget productions like LoTR and GoT, movie swordfight choreography is just painful to watch if you know some fencing basics.

Apart from that, this video of his is of particular relevance to this topic, although it's far from the only one:

https://youtu.be/9qJBGlChcXU

yeah looks really interesting! I have to admit I know nothing about weapon fighting, all my training is in unarmed combat, but it was interesting seeing his approach to fighting multiple opponents with swords and comparing it to our unarmed training against multiple opponents.
ha, yeah, know the feeling, can't watch any martial arts movies anymore without cringing :)

off to watch the video