ELE LIGHTNING STRIKE - ALL T16s, Shaper, Uber Atziri, HOGM, Chayula, Elder

mvn thanks for the reply.

About dodge - you raise a very good point. Maybe it is overkill in this build and I can use those points elsewhere aand make the build even stronger. I'll test this out

About the maps - it seems you take issue with the mods when most characters in the game cannot attempt them. Ive done Carnage many times with Vulnerability and other hard mods as an example - no issues. Extra damage mods are nice to add, but I'm avoiding hits - so it doesn't really show anything. Once I get a Precinct map I'll post another video with hard mods

About armor - you are basicly agreeing with what I wrote in the FAQ. The math speaks for itself - armor does NOT scale. You NEED to stack an obscene amount of it otherwise it becomes useless against heavy hits. I don't know why we are even arguing this when the implications from the formula are plain to see.

I'm not saying this is the most OP invincible build ever, however it is definitely very strong in end game. And is very fun.

I agree that we have different playstyles and preferences, however please try and understand that there are different ways to approach the game that are viable.

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Ceryneian escribió:

About armor - you are basicly agreeing with what I wrote in the FAQ. The math speaks for itself - armor does NOT scale. You NEED to stack an obscene amount of it otherwise it becomes useless against heavy hits. I don't know why we are even arguing this when the implications from the formula are plain to see.

Can I ask you a question? So you are saying you got your evasion, block and dodge without investing in it from gear and nodes?

You dont need to stack an obscene amount, there's granites that generally double your armor. 30k to ~60k, 40k to ~80k etc

For example, determination and just 150% armor from nodes. 1800 from lioneye shield turned into 3600+ with those amazing shield defense nodes, 1600 from eva / grace (IR), 200 from belt, at least 3000 from chest and helm

8400 x 1.5 x 2.5 = 31500

with granite

11400 x 1.5 x 3.5 = 59850

Thats an extreme case, 20 / 40k I consider good enough, when coupled with 4 charges and enfeeble and 3k+ hp.

((44k armor / 77k armor on granite with 250% from tree))

A small amount like granite isnt going to scale well with big hits, no. You have to invest in armor. I like armor, max block, and 7 endurance charges because they reduce big hits to a joke. And dont mention dps, dps on a melee comes from a 6 link, and for solo play 10-15k is all i need.

All I am saying is I would rather have something to eat a hit when the shit hits the fan, then avoid 9 in 10 hits and instadie when that 10th hit rolls along.

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Ceryneian escribió:

About the maps - it seems you take issue with the mods when most characters in the game cannot attempt them.

They do, because lots of ranged / spellcaster / totem builds out there, thing is we are talking about melee, so we are going to get hit eventually.

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acrobatics = 50% less ES. enjoy

It doesnt matter since nothing would one shot you and not even -max reflect maps would be a problem with a setup like this.

Its just a concept, like my last build was. I had no idea if it actually will turn out good and deal enough damage but it did, it actually dealt too much. With this build I would basically invest the exact same amount of point into damage and a couple less in ES. In perfect gear, which would be the only time I would even consider trying it, I would probably end up up around 4500 ES. Now you can add up all the Evasion, Dodge, Block on top of that pool.

Nothing one shots you unless you purposely tank Vaal smash or think its a smart thing to face tank -max Stormflay, which I froze anyway so I would probably not have to care about her at all. The good thing is that this build would get rid of a specific mod hurting you as much as it does right now and that is added elemental damage. Block, Dodge and Evasion are the only ways to efficiently mitigate that damage so I honestly believe that it might be possible. In the end you can still get 5 Endurance charges, better than nothing for the case someone hits you, right?

If I have the time to farm Shavs as fast in the new league like I was able to in Onslaught I will give it a shot, no doubt. Even though the risk of sicking over a hundred Exalteds is there, why wouldnt you want to see whether or not it works? Totally foolproof, just piss expensive.

mvn - those huge armor numbers you throw out validate my point. You need a crazy amount of armor to mitigate big hits. As damage goes up you need disproportionately higher and higher armor in order to have any reasonable mitigation. Otherwise your armor is basically useless. That's what I mean when I say armor does not scale. And that's exactly what the math implies.

No one is saying armor is bad - and there are many strong builds out there with armor. It just doesn't scale well.

I fail to see what you are trying to argue here - if you want to play a tank build that takes all damage - that's one way to approach the game.

Avoiding damage is a different approach. I would rather be avoiding as many big hits as I can and only having to worry about the occasional hit that gets through, rather than having to take all those big hits.

Ever consider a claw for the extra 15 life per hit?

Whatever, armour life builds are all designed around Granites, Endurance Charges, Determination and Enfeeble.

Life/Armour melee builds are just weak and using that strategics is mandatory.

Build variety is an illusion and if you don't believe me go and take a look in the Marauder forum section at the most popular build. Every single one of them same strategy: Templar/Marauder/Duelist starting area using Granites/Endurance Charges/Determination/Enfeeble.

It is a joke because the game would be all about CHOICE. There is not much choice in playing an armour and life based melee. It is very very obvious what the way to go is and I have experienced this myself because I have only been playing melee ever since open beta. Duelist, Templar and Marauder and the only build that has no issues is particularly the build I described above.

Armour and life melee builds suck balls compared to certain ranged builds that also have the benefit of easily stacking MF on top of that.

Balance=broken

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Ceryneian escribió:

mvn - those huge armor numbers you throw out validate my point. You need a crazy amount of armor to mitigate big hits. As damage goes up you need disproportionately higher and higher armor in order to have any reasonable mitigation. Otherwise your armor is basically useless. That's what I mean when I say armor does not scale. And that's exactly what the math implies.

No one is saying armor is bad - and there are many strong builds out there with armor. It just doesn't scale well.

I fail to see what you are trying to argue here - if you want to play a tank build that takes all damage - that's one way to approach the game.

Avoiding damage is a different approach. I would rather be avoiding as many big hits as I can and only having to worry about the occasional hit that gets through, rather than having to take all those big hits.

my point is just that - you avoid certain maps an armor / block tank wouldnt because when the hit in question gets through, 99% chance you are one shot, and no LOH or vaal pact in the world can resurrect you from a one shot because of a very low hp / armor ratio.

The 'huge' armor numbers are easy to achieve on an armour build, the same way the huge evasion numbers are easy to achieve on your build. you are trying to make it sound as though I am proposing something out of reach to everyone, when im not. 30k armor pre granite isnt hard with the nodes invested.

Also - you say armor doesnt scale. Well, neither does evasion cuz the same evasion for 50% at level 50 isnt the same at level 77. Hmmm, and lets talk about evasion, you have to put all that investment in gear for a measly 1 in 2 chance of not getting hit (50% evasion). Of course that vs non dex based monsters (whatever they are, but according to ggg they exist and have eva / accur bonuses) and vs non ''hits accurately'' rares. Or some unique bosses for all we know could have a very big chance to hit. Block doesnt count since both builds can get that. Dodge is the worst thing ever, you sacrifice even more armor for a multiplicative 30% avoidance.

What makes your 50% so much better? Blind. Without blind it would be nothing. Its the same as armor / endurance charges argument.

I am just comparing evasion stacking and armor stacking, both with max block, as heavily defensive builds. What im trying to argue here is that this build is very inferior to an armour stacking build in general as it has to avoid certain combinations of maps the other build would not. And mainly because the bosses and certain mobs on said maps would hit so hard, that only 4k+ hp and high armor would be able to survive 1-3 hits and have enough time to regenerate, whilst this build would be down in 1 hit.

Again, like this:- http://www.twitch.tv/xdjamkx/b/458769553

Your only quip with my argument seems to be *you think* a well built armor stacking character finds it very hard to stack enough armor to soak up big hits very well. Its not just the armor, its also the extra hp pool that comes with an armor stacking character.

Imo, anyone who would try this build on hc is insane. But hey, thats just me.

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Startkabels escribió:

Whatever, armour life builds are all designed around Granites, Endurance Charges, Determination and Enfeeble.

Life/Armour melee builds are just weak and using that strategics is mandatory.

Build variety is an illusion and if you don't believe me go and take a look in the Marauder forum section at the most popular build. Every single one of them same strategy: Templar/Marauder/Duelist starting area using Granites/Endurance Charges/Determination/Enfeeble.

It is a joke because the game would be all about CHOICE. There is not much choice in playing an armour and life based melee. It is very very obvious what the way to go is and I have experienced this myself because I have only been playing melee ever since open beta. Duelist, Templar and Marauder and the only build that has no issues is particularly the build I described above.

Armour and life melee builds suck balls compared to certain ranged builds that also have the benefit of easily stacking MF on top of that.

Balance=broken

??

You are saying melee is bad because the only strategy you can use is armor/life - which in your opinion sucks.

This is an evasion based melee guide, not an armor guide. I have already shown how viable evasion is for end game, and there are many other viable evasion builds.

You seem to be arguing about balance issues for armor and melee vs range builds - I think the balance forums would be best for that.

Content Removed by Admin: See Forum Guideline C & D

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Ceryneian escribió:

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Startkabels escribió:

Whatever, armour life builds are all designed around Granites, Endurance Charges, Determination and Enfeeble.

Life/Armour melee builds are just weak and using that strategics is mandatory.

Build variety is an illusion and if you don't believe me go and take a look in the Marauder forum section at the most popular build. Every single one of them same strategy: Templar/Marauder/Duelist starting area using Granites/Endurance Charges/Determination/Enfeeble.

It is a joke because the game would be all about CHOICE. There is not much choice in playing an armour and life based melee. It is very very obvious what the way to go is and I have experienced this myself because I have only been playing melee ever since open beta. Duelist, Templar and Marauder and the only build that has no issues is particularly the build I described above.

Armour and life melee builds suck balls compared to certain ranged builds that also have the benefit of easily stacking MF on top of that.

Balance=broken

??

You are saying melee is bad because the only strategy you can use is armor/life - which in your opinion sucks.

This is an evasion based melee guide, not an armor guide. I have already shown how viable evasion is for end game, and there are many other viable evasion builds.

You seem to be arguing about balance issues for armor and melee vs range builds - I think the balance forums would be best for that.

Yeah I know it was a response to this:

"

You dont need to stack an obscene amount, there's granites that generally double your armor. 30k to ~60k, 40k to ~80k etc

For example, determination and just 150% armor from nodes. 1800 from lioneye shield turned into 3600+ with those amazing shield defense nodes, 1600 from eva / grace (IR), 200 from belt, at least 3000 from chest and helm

8400 x 1.5 x 2.5 = 31500

with granite

11400 x 1.5 x 3.5 = 59850

Thats an extreme case, 20 / 40k I consider good enough, when coupled with 4 charges and enfeeble and 3k+ hp.

((44k armor / 77k armor on granite with 250% from tree))

A small amount like granite isnt going to scale well with big hits, no. You have to invest in armor. I like armor, max block, and 7 endurance charges because they reduce big hits to a joke. And dont mention dps, dps on a melee comes from a 6 link, and for solo play 10-15k is all i need.

All I am saying is I would rather have something to eat a hit when the shit hits the fan, then avoid 9 in 10 hits and instadie when that 10th hit rolls along.