GGG: Is the Orb of Alchemy vendor recipe working as intended?

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Kirisute_Gomen escribió:

Your arguments still don't change the fact that you are making out alchs to be some great item, when they are really only used mostly by lower level toons. It is probably as effective to save your good rares to gear up your ALTs, but instead ggg offered you an alternative.

What about chaos orbs? Regardless of level these are always going to be of use and as such are perhaps an even bigger issue and what we should be discussing. Though it must be noted you can simply change the word "alchemy" to "chaos" in these posts and all the arguments still completely apply!

Perhaps alchemy orbs are of less use than people make out, the same cannot be said for other recipes of a similar style (horde x in your many tabs, produce y significantly faster than those that do not pay).

7 alch and I have 1 gcp, that is how great it is, i don't know who actually use a lot of them on item but it is a popular currency in trading.

RavenousRaven states that he made "50-60 alcs and 8 or 9 regals" "over the past few days", that is more than 1 exalt

I am lvl 67 witch with 110 iir 310 iiq, been playing for over a month and my whole asset might worth around 6-8 exalt with me trading actively

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Piggy escribió:

What about chaos orbs? Regardless of level these are always going to be of use and as such are perhaps an even bigger issue and what we should be discussing. Though it must be noted you can simply change the word "alchemy" to "chaos" in these posts and all the arguments still completely apply!

Perhaps alchemy orbs are of less use than people make out, the same cannot be said for other recipes of a similar style (horde x in your many tabs, produce y significantly faster than those that do not pay).

Chaos orbs recipe is not that big of an issue i think, because you don't need lots of stash to do it, and having lots of stash don't really give u advantage for chaos orbs. From my experience farming chaos orbs recipe, most of the time I would only need to keep 2 sets of helm, armor, weapons, belts and would have to wait really long time for 2 rings and an amulet to complete the recipe, while armor and weapon rares just drop tons and I have to vendor them.

(Edited out the sarcastic paragraph)



Get over yourselves with the argument. This isn't the special olympics where everyone is a winner.

You don't seem to understand that time played is the greatest contributor to your stash wealth. We call it accumulation. Let's say you score 2 chaos orbs a week. How many chaos orbs will you have in 1 year? (104 for the mathmatically challenged) Stash size did not affect this at all.

Alchemy orbs are nice when you can use them to complete a set and turn it in for a regal. You can use them to make MF gear. Resist gear. pretty much anything you need to play the game. You crying about not having as many orbs as someone else due to stash size can do one of two things. Play more often and continue accumulating or buy more stash space which still takes effort to fill.

The stash tab/accumulate gear to get alchs argument is flawed. Since you could replace alch orbs with regal orbs since you need stash space to accumulate 3 pieces.
Not to mention I could use stash tabs to collect flasks to get orbs. I could list a few more examples that use stash space.

Buying stash tabs makes my gaming life easier and more likely to continue playing the game. You not wanting to toss down 10 bucks to buy 3 additional pages is not my problem.

Mule accounts are the way to go if you want your free tabs. Just don't complain since you want to play the game for free. That option is there.

Yes. You have mule accounts, the ability to be organized, and pens and paper. FIGURE IT OUT!

Like someone said earlier, the web based trading will make muling in this even easier for you people who are too cheap to buy a few stash tabs.

Now if you are just simply complaining about the alch/chaos recipes, well the beta economy has survived just fine the way it is.

These are fun, complex game mechanics to learn and take advantage of as you play. It's not something to be nerfed and dumbed down to feel "fair" to you.

Trading for matching rare names is a great way to interact with other players and have even more alch orbs. The great thing about this, is even if you only have 3 stash tabs of rares, you could probably match 10-20 rares with someone that paid for the tabs and has 18 tabs full. Then you are benefiting from players that actually spent the money.

Why complain? Get rewarded for your effort, or don't bother...nobody cares. Just don't implore that it needs to be ruined for everyone else who wants to put in that effort.

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RavenousRaven escribió:

I have 30 stash tabs and i store all rares.

I'd be interested to know peoples thoughts on that, as it currently seems to me to be a mechanic which has the potential to cause massive inflation.

I dont see a 'massive inflation' there. Once there is a real trade system between players, its not more effort to match your 4 pages of rares with someone else than match your multiple pages of rares with 'yourself'. On the other hand, 1 alch makes 1 rare, but 2 rare (may) give 1 alch - so the recipe already works against inflation (basically), and the nexr thing: more alch's simply lead into more used alch's, the other currency sink... If this doesnt fit the desired economy, GGG can (and will) easily make some adjustments to rare and alch's drops (just like they did with the shard rewards some time ago. Its not a real problem to balance this.

I have 12 pages now, with 8 used for rare items, but from the few matches (<10) are ~1/3 of the items stuff I want to keep...

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RavenousRaven escribió:

I do not feel this is correct. It takes very little time to go back to town and stash things.

Thats your opinion. I know a lot of people, who even cry for bigger inventory - for the fact that going to town when its full is too much effort and "lost" gaming experience for them...

I like it.

I do the matching myself, even though I could easily use the chrome extension instead... but where's the fun in that? ;)

(Sorry if this comes across a little disjointed and rambling, A little low on sleep here.)

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hungryneko escribió:

I am lvl 67 witch with 110 iir 310 iiq, been playing for over a month and my whole asset might worth around 6-8 exalt with me trading actively

Just throwing this out there after reading this thread and seeing the stream of the Vaults map, would not the currency prizes from the two week hardcore race have completely changed the economy quite massively?

After all, we have seen that exalted orbs trade 1:1 for chisels now.

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More directly on topic, I really think this recipe is not hurting anyone seriously. Since alchemy orbs are not a limited resource (They can be created as needed by the game, not assigned from a limited pool) I doubt I will ever see anyone prove they were unable to create an alchemy orb due to someone else having too many. Recipe or drop, it does not matter that greatly.

Essentially you could play this game as single player except for shared encampments and never have any issue (Cut-Throat excluded). Every other player could have hundreds of pages of loot and it would not effect you in the slightest. Your drops remain the same, monster effectiveness remains the same. Experience gain? Same.



The only time this does come into play is in competitive leagues. For short term leagues, the odds of matching more than two sets of rares are pretty low for characters starting at level 1. I would even hazard a guess that players selling their rares for the alteration shards right away may even end up with a slight advantage, having slightly improved gear 'now' rather than the possibility of better gear 'later'.

Long term is the only time there is an issue in which it could give a player a real competitive advantage, and so far we have had a single (1) example of such a league. I do not think we have had enough time since it finished to really see any effect on the larger economy yet due to this, although I personally believe the rewards are far more likely to cause issues than any of the items the players otherwise obtained.

Figuring out what is viable and what is not is part of what I believe the whole closed beta process is about (especially with a player determined economy). Maybe the best solution is to increase the drop rate of alchemy orbs slightly, this would allow players to keep a stack or two easily stashed and they would not feel the need to hoard rares. Or maybe more prefix/suffix combinations should result in alchemy shards? Who know? That is the fun of testing.

It is inevitable that some players will have an advantage over others, (Time, skill, friends, luck, etc) there is never any way to completely level the playing field. Players with higher income and/or more free time will always have an advantage.

In fact, all of us playing in the closed beta have a huge advantage over players only picking up the game once it enters public open beta. Creating and end-game viable build can be quite complex and many players will need quite a few attempts to work one out. This is all time those of us with closed beta experience will be able to skip or at least severely reduce.



I expect to see threads once we are in open beta saying how Marauder_outfit_XXXX makes it easier to blend in in a specific map type (say forest, under all the trees and weeds) and that it is pay to win. Or how Witch_hat_XXXX blends in to cave walls a little better, allowing that player to hide inside of caves a little easier, and so is pay to win.

And I will just smile to myself and remember that I chose to donate to GGG to support a good game and awesome people rather than having to pay hundreds a month even to attempt to play single player (as at least one game I used to enjoy became during my time there). I will put on my favorite outfit, maybe pick a pet I enjoy (I would love a little gryphon pet) and go make pincushions of my preferred enemies with my ranger or smash them to a pulp with my marauder.

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Mr_Cee escribió:

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RavenousRaven escribió:

I have 30 stash tabs and i store all rares.

I'd be interested to know peoples thoughts on that, as it currently seems to me to be a mechanic which has the potential to cause massive inflation.

I dont see a 'massive inflation' there. Once there is a real trade system between players, its not more effort to match your 4 pages of rares with someone else than match your multiple pages of rares with 'yourself'. On the other hand, 1 alch makes 1 rare, but 2 rare (may) give 1 alch - so the recipe already works against inflation (basically), and the nexr thing: more alch's simply lead into more used alch's, the other currency sink... If this doesnt fit the desired economy, GGG can (and will) easily make some adjustments to rare and alch's drops (just like they did with the shard rewards some time ago. Its not a real problem to balance this.

I have 12 pages now, with 8 used for rare items, but from the few matches (<10) are ~1/3 of the items stuff I want to keep...

Just because you're not using it to your advantage, doesn't mean other people aren't. This is the result I get from prymaid runs farming maps.
Drop: 1 gcp, 1 chaos, 1 fusing, 2 alchs, a few chroms/alt/trans.
Matched name: 10~15 alch orbs. Yup, that's how easily you can match up.

I didn't use any orbs, simply stash them for buying 5L/6L es armor, and the amount of alch orb when I have gotten an exalted reaches 36, that's close to an exalted. (of course, I still have a bunch of other orb drops from loot)

While exalted is completely rare and random, matching name will always provide constant supply of alchs.

Do you still think them not that big of a deal?

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Mr_Cee escribió:

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RavenousRaven escribió:

I do not feel this is correct. It takes very little time to go back to town and stash things.

Thats your opinion. I know a lot of people, who even cry for bigger inventory - for the fact that going to town when its full is too much effort and "lost" gaming experience for them...

I also know a lot of people, who would even sell magic item to earn orbs; because they are dirt poor and have no better way of generating them. Wouldn't an extra alch once in a while be a godsend? But you can't really pull that off unless you have extra stash tabs.



Doesn't matter whether you think extra stash tab is p2w or not, an unfair advantage is an unfair advantage, you can't change that. And convenience are how all these p2w games started; "we are not going alter the gameplay with cashshop, but we are going to give you convenient cashshop items that makes you p2w."

While I don't think the extra stash tab would make the game immediately p2w; I do believe it is a step toward p2w since it gives an edge over others.

I am willing to support a game I love with my wallet; but p2w game is not something I love. Extra stash tab is pushing it, but I have faith that GGG will not cross that line.


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SilverGryphoness escribió:

After all, we have seen that exalted orbs trade 1:1 for chisels now.

What? where are you getting this? that person selling exalted just got ripped off