[3.25] Community-crafted Pure Retal Gladiator | Sous-Vide the Atlas

i make tree in pob dont add items yet bcs dont know what to use https://pobb.in/XPfHzs_f2NZt its for shield based tree i need to make one with dual wielding

This is the leveling tree for the acts, decided to go very scuffed
i am using the today's updated pob fork, can't guarantee is final
don't forget to update yours

https://pobb.in/r5IjbESLdy6b

I'm very interested in this build, in 2019 I played with a counterattack build where I stood still and watched the mobs die hahaha, I'm very grateful that you're doing this, and I'm sorry for my basic English, I'm Brazilian!

I'll also leave the link to the full block and counterattack build, from many past leagues hahaha

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2622675

I'm planning a similar build and have a POB already (can send it if you want). I have few points for you to consider:
1. Swordstorm requires dual wielding.
2. I'm pretty sure that all retaliation skills share their cooldowns since there is a node on the tree that has a chance to allows a second one. Therefore, you should focus on one and have another one max.
3. If you want a piano based style, you should choose weapons plus shield since there are several retaliation skills with shield and I think only swordstorm with dual wielding.
4. With retaliation skills you will be waiting for a block, specifically in bosses. I think you should include another skill that will do less damage, but will proc things like leech, rage and fortify (I chose cyclone).
5. Lastly, there is one interaction that might be so OP and that is retaliation skills and general's cry. I can't find information about how this will work but theoretically it should (no text against it).

Sounds interesting and promising!

There is a problem with retaliation skills called huge cooldowns.
Let's assume that we have taken all proper retaliation nodes.
Thus we have:
1. 70% for retaliatoin skills to not consume a cooldown use
2. 35% for a different retaliation skill to become usable
If we have for example 5 different retaliation skills and their cooldown is not shared there is 3.5% (0.3*0.65^5) chance after a single block that all our retaliation skills are on cooldown. Seems not too much, but if we take 10 hits it is 30%, for 20 hits it is 50% and so on. 3-5 seconds (or 1.5-2.5s in mirror-tier gear) of not damaging after just 10-20 hits results in really low dps.

May be there will be some good uniques that can solve the problem, but as for now pure retaliation seems to be not viable.

"

freingard escribió:

There is a problem with retaliation skills called huge cooldowns.
Let's assume that we have taken all proper retaliation nodes.
Thus we have:
1. 70% for retaliatoin skills to not consume a cooldown use
2. 35% for a different retaliation skill to become usable
If we have for example 5 different retaliation skills and their cooldown is not shared there is 3.5% (0.3*0.65^5) chance after a single block that all our retaliation skills are on cooldown. Seems not too much, but if we take 10 hits it is 30%, for 20 hits it is 50% and so on. 3-5 seconds (or 1.5-2.5s in mirror-tier gear) of not damaging after just 10-20 hits results in really low dps.

May be there will be some good uniques that can solve the problem, but as for now pure retaliation seems to be not viable.

let me say that i am cooking some other mechanics for this
i am aware that the big IF for retal skills is the CDR and means of acquiring it
i won't spoil anything right now because last build i did it, GGG nerfed it to the ground... my poor little lancing steel build :(

and maybe you are thinking of viability as an equal of being competitive with other builds
but it is clear that i want an off-meta gameplay, my first objective is killing pinnacles whatever comes next is pure profit

"

There is a problem with retaliation skills called huge cooldowns.
Let's assume that we have taken all proper retaliation nodes.
Thus we have:
1. 70% for retaliatoin skills to not consume a cooldown use
2. 35% for a different retaliation skill to become usable
If we have for example 5 different retaliation skills and their cooldown is not shared there is 3.5% (0.3*0.65^5) chance after a single block that all our retaliation skills are on cooldown. Seems not too much, but if we take 10 hits it is 30%, for 20 hits it is 50% and so on. 3-5 seconds (or 1.5-2.5s in mirror-tier gear) of not damaging after just 10-20 hits results in really low dps.

Could you please help me to understand this? I believe if we block more hits, we should have more chance of having at least one usable retal skill. By your calculation, it seems that more block = less chance to use retal skill. Thanks in advance.

I doubt the cooldown on retaliation skills are shared, what would be the point of having different cooldowns on different ones then? They would all just have the same cooldown time. Also, there is a node on the tree that gives you 25% to activate another retaliation skill when you use one, which implies it's currently not activatable due to haven't Proce'd or on cooldown.

Smooth-brained Retaliation enjoyer here.

If all goes well, will you be making a proper guide with video footage of the build in action?

I pray for your success, champion!