The Journey is Better than the Destination

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Nubatron escribió:

In general I would agree, with the exception of melee attacks. Leveling with melee attacks just always feel awful compared to other non-melee skills. The sword helps to scale the damage and make the leveling process feel decent.

The upfront cost to get it, which is more than it would take to get a Tabula Rasa through any other means, seems like a good trade off.

I agree, both when it comes to the trade off - and the feel of melee during leveling. Doesn't really make the item 'better' in my opinion, just highlights the game's shortcomings. Every problem where a unique item is the solution, it's not really a solution, but a band aid.

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Phrazz escribió:

If I'm not on Charan's naughty list already, my following statement will probably get me there: I don't like the OG. Well, the lore and voices? I like those. But the idea of a piece of equipment that is designed to not be changed, upgraded or swapped during a character's lifespan (from level 1), goes against everything I believe in when it comes to an ARPG.

I guess it's alight/fair enough as long as it's an exception, and not "the rule".

For efficiency I don't have a naughty list. Just a fairly short list of people I have not been given cause to dislike.

I completely agree. Obviously! I tucked it away in a distant parallel dimension no one would think to explore. Literally had to tell players. OG is the epitome of novelty and aimed squarely at people who should probably just quit the game. You are not one such and for that you have my quiet envy.

You get what I really did though. I didn't make an item. I made a character. Rather, I inserted a version of one. Equipping OG strips your character of its voice. It imposes a new one. It restricts your options for build (sword, no off hand, high fire resistance, etc) despite presenting an unusually high amount of flexibility within that restriction. And it's not as though your character had any agency to begin with. What, you can either do what the game tells you to do or you can choose not to. Complete quest or don't. Clear map or don't. Etc. The ONLY identity an Exile has is how they kill and what they occasionally say along the way. OG controls both.

But the reward for this submission is simplification. In PoE, choice can be a burden. Hell, in life. I used to wear a uniform to school and hated it. American kids on tv didnt, so lucky! But later in life I realised that not having to stress over what to wear was probably exactly the sort of lack of freedom perfect for a kid. There is such a thing as too much freedom, too many options. And even with OG in hand, you still have more to consider with your character than most other games.

This level of simplification absolutely shits on the core premise of an ARPG. I love looter shooters for the same reason. I think Nioh probably takes it a bit far and PoE is just the posterchild of excess. So I think the reason OG works is not just the novelty but also the security. The knowledge that with one item equipped, you are spared the hassle of upgrading, at least for a while. You still have to worry about all the other item slots, skill gems, the Skilldrasil, and whatever else. It's not as though OG strips it all away. It just removes a few layers from an onion no sane person would just bite into.

In any other ARPG OG would be a game breaker in terms of ruining the loot game. But in PoE it just, if you'll pardon the pun, takes the edge off. And like most things that take the edge off, it's not for everyone. You can't just buy it (someone has to hunt it down) because taking the edge off isn't standard.

Do *I* like OG? Not a great deal. Makes the game too easy and some of the writing reminds of where I was at the time which explains how bad it can be. And when I hear a line I still adore I think they should all be that good. No excuses.

So its popularity shouldn't surprise me. Everything I've made that I do and did love is pretty unpopular. I am prepared to die of old age before reconciling that one.

Did I mention I'm not on that list? :)

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Phrazz escribió:

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Nubatron escribió:

In general I would agree, with the exception of melee attacks. Leveling with melee attacks just always feel awful compared to other non-melee skills. The sword helps to scale the damage and make the leveling process feel decent.

The upfront cost to get it, which is more than it would take to get a Tabula Rasa through any other means, seems like a good trade off.

I agree, both when it comes to the trade off - and the feel of melee during leveling. Doesn't really make the item 'better' in my opinion, just highlights the game's shortcomings. Every problem where a unique item is the solution, it's not really a solution, but a band aid.

Yeah, I can't argue with that. I made the mistake of playing the Delirium event with Ground Slam for a while. Brutus might as well have been invincible. I realize he made most builds suck, but it was particularly ugly with a melee skill.

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Nubatron escribió:

I actually don't really care about having the shield now that I have it. My friends are pretty psyched to play with it though, so it will still have some purpose.

See it begs the question if you have enjoyed the journey. You and your friends will remember the destination.
Where are the crazy in between stories? The friends you made along the way, the others that you tricked into buying your overvalued stuff. The hideouts you have seen and tried to recreate. Something.

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pifpep escribió:

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Nubatron escribió:

I actually don't really care about having the shield now that I have it. My friends are pretty psyched to play with it though, so it will still have some purpose.

See it begs the question if you have enjoyed the journey. You and your friends will remember the destination.
Where are the crazy in between stories? The friends you made along the way, the others that you tricked into buying your overvalued stuff. The hideouts you have seen and tried to recreate. Something.

I switched over to HC after handing the shield off to them, so I wouldn't say that I've really even experienced the destination.

Do you really want to hear about all my trades? My spawning of Sirus over and over? Having a bad Maven run and getting down to my last portal in one of the fights?

As for the tricking of players, I don't believe I sold anything at an outrageous price. I tend to think you can't overprice something. If there is a buyer at that price, that's what it is worth.

I don't try to buy things that are underpriced, and in the instances over the last decade where I've seen someone massively underprice something, I've informed them of their mistake before buying it.

The shield was the reason to keep playing, and every time I found something that moved me closer to that goal felt good. I highly doubt many people will get a thrill reading about those drops, at least not the thrill that I had when those things dropped.

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pifpep escribió:

See it begs the question if you have enjoyed the journey. You and your friends will remember the destination.

What I will remember most is our mutual friend complaining he can't get a single build working better than dual CIP Seismic Traps.

It's fun to watch him try, though. :)

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registerzero escribió:

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pifpep escribió:

See it begs the question if you have enjoyed the journey. You and your friends will remember the destination.

What I will remember most is our mutual friend complaining he can't get a single build working better than dual CIP Seismic Traps.

It's fun to watch him try, though. :)

Hah, he told me he wanted to give me a report on the shield, but we've not sync'd up as of yet. I suspect it's hard to compete with Seismic Trap this league.

Analysis of our own psyche reveals that we do nothing without goals. A person with no goals can be spotted eating junk food on the couch and watching someone else reach their goals. This is happiness but it doesn't originate from the same place.

So games have to have goals otherwise we wouldn't play them. Even a mundane goal of fishing X number of fish or building another settlement or completing a quest all trigger that association of success in our brains which produces happiness.

When this goes poorly is when the goal simply isn't obtainable or induces enough stress that the goal isn't worth it. Now it's completely fine to ditch the goal and most of us would recommend it.

In your case I don't see what the harm is in having a goal like this. It occupied plenty of your free time presumably. Maybe if you're feeling empty the time to move on to more fulfilling goals has arrived.

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Izrakhan escribió:

Analysis of our own psyche reveals that we do nothing without goals. A person with no goals can be spotted eating junk food on the couch and watching someone else reach their goals. This is happiness but it doesn't originate from the same place.

So games have to have goals otherwise we wouldn't play them. Even a mundane goal of fishing X number of fish or building another settlement or completing a quest all trigger that association of success in our brains which produces happiness.

When this goes poorly is when the goal simply isn't obtainable or induces enough stress that the goal isn't worth it. Now it's completely fine to ditch the goal and most of us would recommend it.

In your case I don't see what the harm is in having a goal like this. It occupied plenty of your free time presumably. Maybe if you're feeling empty the time to move on to more fulfilling goals has arrived.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that I regretted my choice. In fact, this goal has provided utility beyond myself which is more than most of my previous goals. My first level 100 character was a goal one league a long while ago, and once I hit it, I made a new character almost immediately. In that instance the journey was the fun part. Being level 100 was great to hit, but having it was no where near as good as chasing it.

As Charan said earlier, the journey is the destination. I can't summarize it better than that.

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jewdas12 escribió:

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DarthSki44 escribió:

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Nubatron escribió:

You say nobody, yet I'm perfectly fine with it.

I dont believe you, but its your thread so I wont derail it further.

I like the premise about the journey, but the payoff shouldn't be I paid someone else for the destination.

are you suggesting op made a thread just to lie about how much he enjoyed grinding to buy this item? are you for real?

No, he's suggesting that the OP is poorly analyzing what it is that he likes or dislikes. Most people are not well in-tune with themselves enough to be able to do so.

Most people are not good at analysis, including self-analysis.

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Phrazz escribió:

I agree here. [In] my eyes, ARPG's are all about getting powerful, not necessarily being powerful. The journey towards your goal will always be the main thing.

I think this depends on the player, and also the game, although... most games provide some open-endedness anyway.

It depends on the player because... you can choose what your goal is. If your goal is just to make a trophy character, then yes, you're essentially setting yourself up for failure. Your goal has a finite end point.

But if your goal is something... let's say competitive. Then you have to constantly work towards maintaining this goal, for example. Maybe you want the fastest Sirus run. Maybe you want to be the best PvP'er. Etc, etc. These are good goals. Because even if you reach them... you have to keep them.

But if your goal is to get this item, or finish this character, then it's effectively the same goal as, find an Exalted Orb. It might not happen Day 1, but it WILL happen. And then you're done. And then you make posts about how you have nothing to do, in a game with a LOT to do.




People have to choose their paths. But most people don't have such creativity. If the game isn't pointing in a certain direction, they're just auto-running into a wall.