[3.20] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Cjin escribió:

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BackGround58 escribió:

Amazing build . Fast acting with it . My question is , since I just started playing this league , do you have any suggestions on a low ( very low ) budget gear ? I feel like I'm to squishy with only 3k ES >.<

Just search for high ES items with Int in them. Finding some with empty suffix and/or resistance is good.

For chest for example
https://www.pathofexile.com/trade/search/Expedition/Xevnk3KHP

Thanks a lot for the info !

I've been asking myself the same question after using over 300 chromatics. I settled for 1 green 4 blues 1 red and i'm using inspiration gem until I can get lucky on white sockets by using the syndicate

Wanted to say thank you for this build, I haven't played for over 10 leagues and its been a bit to take in with all the new leagues. The build overall has been pretty straight forward to follow.

To any newer players (I consider my self a bit past this stage) this build is very doable with lower gear. I don't know how to make currency in this game and I've been able to afford a full budget version of this.

Sitting at about 2K int 9600 ES and can roll through T13 maps. There are some map rolls you need to be aware of but its very doable without deaths so far.

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ShatteredEssence wrote:
god damn it, how do we color the staff? i wasted 80c and still no luck

use the 1 green chrome recipe and spam until you get what you need.

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InsaneX3 escribió:

So, seeing as you say that the market is dead, would you recommend this build to someone who doesn't make as much currency in general to get some of the good Int items? Seeing as there are less on the market now and probably more expensive as well, on top of many players that are playing this guide trying to snipe these. I feel like I probably won't get far.

Depends on your goals in the league: what do you want to do, how far are you planning to do, in how much time.

I have never actually recommended my build to anybody, because everybody has their own ideas of things like 'expensive', 'tanky', 'high/low damage', etc.

In this league, I found 2 exalts in the first 10 days and still got to the point shown in the T16 Mapping video. If that's good enough from your perspective then I can recommend this build for mapping, doing the league mechanics and most of the challenges.

However, if your goal is to farm The Maven then I can't recommend this build in this league. Getting the same gear as in my 3.13 videos for Maven/Uncharted would definitely cost a lot more currency and/or time in this league than in 3.13.

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ShatteredEssence escribió:

do we drop herald of ice from non cluster jewel?

Herald of Ice is OK for leveling and early mapping. But at about 2k Int it becomes irrelevant: 1 Icestorm hit does 10x more damage. Everything already dies to Icestorm, just without fancy explosions and ear candy sounds.

I would use Herald of Ice until you get Aspect of the Spider. And then drop it. No real reason to spend 4 points on Charisma.

Small update:


Replaced Cold Penetration in the boss staff with Elemental Focus.

Most bosses cannot be frozen, and PoB shows that even for the most resistant ones (e.g. Sirus) EF does more damage than CP.

This is also much easier to color. And when you get to the point of upgrading Astramentis (and losing a lot of Dex) this can save you 1-2 skill points by not requiring high Dex.

Note: this is for the boss staff only. The mapping one is still 2G4B. Hypothermia is great, especially Anomalous.

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Kelvynn escribió:

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Narayu escribió:

with the current cluster PoB it's showing 19k EHP for physical dmg, is this actually tanky enough? I don't know that much about ES and how this build handles this but 19k sounds rather low for a build designed to be tanky.
would love some input as I really like the idea of this one. thanks!

I don't know how PoB calculates all that, and if you even select the right options. It also tries to show a 'DPS' number for Icestorm. Which is hilariously low and totally wrong.

This build uses multiple layers of defense. You can see how tanky it is in the videos.

does that mean we have no way to really know how much damage we're doing if pob isn't showing us the real deal?
how are we determining upgrades outside of int stacking?

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Narayu escribió:

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Kelvynn escribió:

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Narayu escribió:

with the current cluster PoB it's showing 19k EHP for physical dmg, is this actually tanky enough? I don't know that much about ES and how this build handles this but 19k sounds rather low for a build designed to be tanky.
would love some input as I really like the idea of this one. thanks!

I don't know how PoB calculates all that, and if you even select the right options. It also tries to show a 'DPS' number for Icestorm. Which is hilariously low and totally wrong.

This build uses multiple layers of defense. You can see how tanky it is in the videos.

does that mean we have no way to really know how much damage we're doing if pob isn't showing us the real deal?
how are we determining upgrades outside of int stacking?

PoB shows 1 hit damage accurately. That is the number to watch and upgrade.

After the changes in 3.12, calculating the actual boss DPS should be very easy, I don't know why PoB doesn't do that. You can have 5 stacks of Icestorm, and it only takes ~1.5 sec to stack them all on any given location. Each storm hits 5 times per second, and with CE, for just about any boss, they will all hit the target. So that's 25 hits per second.

Multiply the single hit damage by 25 and you get the accurate DPS number for a fully-stacked Icestorm. Just make sure to choose the correct Settings.

ETA: Actually, I forgot to take into account something that could be ignored until 3.15. The more accurate number with the recent changes is 24x the hit damage. See my next post.

I'm sorry, but I don't want to wade through the maze of answers and questions so much. This has certainly been explained before. I understand that the given pob is up-to-date? Wouldn't you consider introducing a spoiler to the forum on the day of the new league? With such a long thread, it would make navigating the updates easier. Hope not confused, but I like to play your pirouette.

Math: Icestorm DPS and CwC levels

Math time!

Let's look at the Icestorm hit frequency closely, since there is an important caveat created by the changes in 3.12 that makes the top levels of the gem less efficient. It didn't matter much until 3.15 because the gem had a MORE damage mod that scaled with the levels, and that mod compensated for the mechanical issue described below.

As of 3.12, Icestorm hits every 0.2 sec, and there is a limit of 5 existing storms. Any new storm created after that replaces the oldest existing storm.

What this means:
- if you have a lv 20 CwC (+1 level in the staff) it creates a new storm every 0.35 sec
- after a storm is created, 5 casts later it is replaced with a new one, meaning that each storm exists for 0.35 * 5 = 1.75 sec
- a storm hits every 0.2 sec after it's created, meaning that in that 1.75 sec it produces 8 hits
- 1 storm's DPS is its AVG_HIT * 8 / 1.75
- fully stacked Icestorm DPS with CwC lv 20 on a stationary target is:
5 * AVG_HIT * 8 / 1.75 = AVG_HIT * 22.9

You can see that the last 0.15 sec of each storm is wasted here. It is replaced merely 0.05 sec before it would produce its 9th hit. That's not good. In 3.12-3.14, this problem was not significant because the gem had a scaling MORE damage multiplier that made higher levels better anyway. But it was removed in 3.15.

Therefore, we need to try to maximize the number of actual hits, i.e. get the life span of each storm closer to a number divisible by 0.2. For example, lv 18 CwC casts every 0.36 sec, and each storm lasts 0.36 * 5 = 1.8 sec.

BUT there is an important question that I was not able to get an answer for: if a new storm is created at the same exact time as the old one produces a hit - what happens first? Does the old storm hit before it's replaced, or is it replaced before it can do its final hit? If it's replaced at 1.8 sec mark before landing the 9th hit then we lose the whole 0.2 sec interval right there. Until we can get an answer from a dev, I would rather not risk it and try to find a number slightly over a 0.2 sec mark to guarantee a hit.

For the boss staff: Awakened CwC lv 1 (becomes lv 2 in the staff) casts every 0.33 sec, or 1.65 sec per full cycle of 5 casts. This lets each storm produce 8 hits. And the total DPS is:
5 * AVG_HIT * 8 / 1.65 = AVG_HIT * 24.2

For the mapping staff: CwC lv 15-16 (16-17 in the staff) casts every 0.37 sec, or 1.85 sec per cycle, each storm lasting 9 hits. Total DPS
5 * AVG_HIT * 9 / 1.85 = AVG_HIT * 24.3

That's slightly better than ACwC in the boss staff but takes an extra 0.2 sec to fully stack. On a highly mobile boss like Sirus it's better to reach full DPS faster since hes not going to stand still for long.

So I would use CwC lv 15 for map clearing and ACwC lv 1 for the bosses.