Map Boss HP is retarded / not worth it / waste of time / GGG do you even try

I guess this is what you get when you insist you have "lots of experts" with "Thousands of hours playing," and are dead certain that because of this, your design team can feel confident that they can change player behavior to play the game the way GGG WANTS them to play it.

In truth, the reality is very simple: NO developer can absolutely trust they know how the player is going to play, but they CAN trust that the PLAYERBASE (which is, y'know, far more numerous than the developers!) WILL find the most "optimal" way to play through, and can, in fact, by the virtue that they are so much more numerous and incentivized, WILL find a more ideal solution.

This was a pretty straightforward ordeal: GGG wanted to slow map clears and EXP gain. It's kinda been a major schtick for them for at least two years. They figured they could add arbitrary padding, and it'd work.

Apparently, as we've seen, GGG didn't care about beta input at all; it was really just a cash cow for them. Hence, they entirely ignored the rather resounding data (both written AND their own telemetry they like to brag about) that indicated that padding boss fight times just makes people skip them.

I mean, it's not hard to see, as (almost) everyone in this thread has stated independently: there's no reason to take a hit to your EXP/hour for no gain.

GGG wanted map bosses to be more like the guardians? Well, let's take a look at how the two were in 2.6:

• T1-15 Bosses in 2.6:
  - Quick kills.
  - No/minimal risk.
  - A trash mob pack's worth of EXP. Usually no loot to highlight. Sometimes a map; usually low-tier.
  
  
• T16 Guardians:
  - Lengthy boss fights.
  - Moderate to higher risk, depending on build.
  - Low EXP for the time spent. However, ALWAYS drops a shaper fragment, and frequently a high-tier unique.

Now, let's look at trash bosses in 3.0:

• T1-15 Bosses in 3.0:
  - Lengthy boss fights.
  - Modest risk (due to DoT/other changes)
  - A trash mob pack's worth of EXP. Usually no loot to highlight. Sometimes a map; usually low-tier.
  

Before, bosses were, if you were glassy enough, a "why not" affair. Now they are mandatory "skip unless you need the Atlas completion."

If GGG wants people to do them, or to slow down, they need to give a REASON to make players WANT to do that, and not "because we said so."

Part of me thinks is this GGG's plan after they move on from PoE. Make every map boss ridiculously high HP so players in PoE can spend infinite amounts of time trying to beat them.

If you're going to step off your game and move on to something else, why not turn all the dials to 11 in the name of "longevity"......

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Apos91 escribió:

I guess GGG wants everyone to play Ancestral Warchief.

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MortalKombat3 escribió:

GGG just should take 20-30% experience granted to mobs in map/area, and shift that amount of EXP to bosses. It's nonsense, that squashing hundreds of weak-as-fuck white mobs grants experience (= character learns from it), but killing an imposing boss with huge HP pool and very dangerous skills grants 0 experience (=character learns nothing).
Sure, since bosses grant no experience, very little currency and just a few rare items, players are highly encouraged to skip them.
Dont turn it into Path of Skipping, GGG!

why does the solution have to be punishing players EVEN MORE?

This is beyond stupid. The majority of builds lost tonnes of DPS AND bosses had their HP closed to double and instead of actually giving something back people want to FORCE people to do them?

That's going to help player retention in an already boring league due to GGG's new'n'sucky conservative approach to rewards where level 80 harbingers don't even drop a complete Alteration.

Yes, i want game to be hard.
If you're too weak to kill bosses, you MUST be punished for that! BTW, you'd still get your 70-80% exp from trash you kill. You arent "completely screwed", just put behind players, who play game as it's intended - without skipping content.

League is boring ,true, but that's completely another story, that is irrelevant to bosses and their risk/reward ratio.

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Necromael escribió:

Was this mentioned in beta feedback? If yes, why was there no official response to this issue if it bothers so many people?

It´s been discussed a lot on beta forums.
No official response and the white knights jumped in a defended everything.

Kinda surprised that the white knights arent here to defend the change.
Prolly still busy killing T1 bosses ^^

It punishes a lot of players who have a weak single target. I think the solution would be either buff single target on some skills or at least make map bosses more challenging yet more rewarding. Boosting boss hp didn't do anything for most bosses it just made them more tanky

PoE is an "unrewarding" game. It was and it will. Because GGG thinking the less drop rate equal to the more time for gaming/farming. It is our instinct, pushing us for finding rewards or solutions or whatever it is. And GGG gaining money on it. They have to change it? I don't think so. It is working well on stupid players like us. No-lifers, fat guys, nerds etc. It is working really good.

So, the point of this thread is completely unnecessary for GGG's strategy.

Let's talk about some rewarding games? Did they survive 1 year? 6 months? No. They're boring players after all the things are discovered and all the achievements are done. But in PoE you're never done. You are always dying. Regardless to the items or passives result is simple; one shot. All the time you're saying to yourself something like "i have to try harder". Pointless. But working.

Pointless because you're playing a game made by other "humans". They are setting the numeric values. Chris can make you invincible any time he wants as an admin but he will never do that. It is like our real world. There are a lot of rich people living out there. But did you ever see anybody flying with mechanic wings or iron-man suit? No. Unrewarding even if you're rich af.

I love this game because it is just like our real life. Merciless, unrewarding, pointless and complex. Crying for more while you have nothing is just childish. The goal of the game is pain.

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MortalKombat3 escribió:

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Apos91 escribió:

I guess GGG wants everyone to play Ancestral Warchief.

"

MortalKombat3 escribió:

GGG just should take 20-30% experience granted to mobs in map/area, and shift that amount of EXP to bosses. It's nonsense, that squashing hundreds of weak-as-fuck white mobs grants experience (= character learns from it), but killing an imposing boss with huge HP pool and very dangerous skills grants 0 experience (=character learns nothing).
Sure, since bosses grant no experience, very little currency and just a few rare items, players are highly encouraged to skip them.
Dont turn it into Path of Skipping, GGG!

why does the solution have to be punishing players EVEN MORE?

This is beyond stupid. The majority of builds lost tonnes of DPS AND bosses had their HP closed to double and instead of actually giving something back people want to FORCE people to do them?

That's going to help player retention in an already boring league due to GGG's new'n'sucky conservative approach to rewards where level 80 harbingers don't even drop a complete Alteration.

Yes, i want game to be hard.
If you're too weak to kill bosses, you MUST be punished for that! BTW, you'd still get your 70-80% exp from trash you kill. You arent "completely screwed", just put behind players, who play game as it's intended - without skipping content.

League is boring ,true, but that's completely another story, that is irrelevant to bosses and their risk/reward ratio.

I don't think you understand what hard means.

Facetanking for 50 seconds and possibly dying due to entropy on your dodge or a crit has nothing to do with a difficulty.

Because that's far as any threat goes regarding bosses up to T13.

This took ages to kill and I brought a friend there from 100% to 0 to boost the item drop rates look it this shit.

Not only worth was it a pain in the ass to kill but this fucking loot is so bad.

With fragment + 20% Q magic blood lines zana + 20% Q chisel

WOOOOOOOOOOOO

#boss_lives_matter

I've only got up to tier 5 but dude I am killing all the bosses under 10 seconds definitely.