[3.5] For Scion - Dual Curse Crit. Based Blade Vortex as Elementalist + Assassin (SSF Viable)

Whats the point of the lightning trap gem there? It wont trigger on damage taken because its so high level. Just randomly throwing it down because why not?

Hi. I'll start by saying that i've been using this build and im in love with it, so really great job!
Also, i was polishing some unfinished Challenges last night when I dropped a nearly perfect
Innsbury Edge Elder Blade

(capped increased physical, 2% away from capped attack speed).
Since im a newbie newbie at this game, i was wondering if this weapon is actually good in this build? Thank you in advance!

"

nastharl escribió:

Whats the point of the lightning trap gem there? It wont trigger on damage taken because its so high level. Just randomly throwing it down because why not?

All Vaal gems can't be triggered by Cast When Damage Taken.

It is a self cast skill and it is used during boss fight for that extra damage. You will throw it right under their feet.

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Kinoko_senpai escribió:

Hi. I'll start by saying that i've been using this build and im in love with it, so really great job!
Also, i was polishing some unfinished Challenges last night when I dropped a nearly perfect
Innsbury Edge Elder Blade

Spoiler

(capped increased physical, 2% away from capped attack speed).
Since im a newbie newbie at this game, i was wondering if this weapon is actually good in this build? Thank you in advance!

Glad you are enjoying the build. :)

I do not have Innsbury Edge in SSF to test it out but the chaos leech and conversion of 25% physical damage is a good fit for the build.


Dual wield with Heartbreaker and your BV will have culling strike effect.

I would suggest the following dual curse setup when you go into red maps:




Heretic's Veil apparently is perfect fit for the build as it gives you a high level Blasphemy and 12% mana reserve reduction (equivalent to Enlighten Level 4).


Abyssal Cry is perfect for the build too with the explosion damage it dealt to surrounding mob.

I love Cyclone skill and I have been using it for mapping. As cyclone ignore pathing, you can cyclone through mobs and will not be blocked. With Fortify gem linked to it, you will have permanent fortify thus ensuring better survival too.

You will however need a melee weapon in order to use the skill. A dagger is perfect for it.

You can also link Cyclone with Curse on Hit gem to apply the 2nd curse to free up the mana reservation pool.

You keep mentioning how Abyssal Cry is good for this build, but we're already doing an insane amount of AOE damage through BV itself. Why do we need a damage boost that's reliant on killing an enemy in range of a group of others? Most things should be melting in a second or two already. If anything, I could see using Rallying Cry. It gives you an absurd damage modifier, especially if you're doing maps with double-Beyond, Rifts, Perandus, or extra Strongboxes.

And for BiS, for the chest it's actually not Carcass Jack. At least, according to Path of Building. The Covenant does give you more DPS since you can have another 20/20 damage support spell since Added Chaos is built in. I'm actually using Added Fire Damage with these two wands.

BiS for helmet is obviously going to be Heretic's Veil. You can't really beat the dual curse setup for mapping.

BiS for rings would be Ming's (like you said) and Le Heup of All. Le Heup is perfect for this build. It gives 10-30% more damage, 10-30 more to all attributes, 10-30% Inc Rarity, and 10-30% All Res. For non SSF, they're cheap to find. For SSF, it's more difficult but you can do it with Chance-ing an Iron Ring base for a while.

BiS for amulet would be Natural Hierarchy, but good luck finding one. They're like 10Ex in Standard.

BiS for belts would be The Retch, The Magnate (for the flask boost and huge Phys boost), Belt of the Deceiver (because Intimidate means they take 10% more damage from all sources), or Doryani's Invitation (for the leech and potential stun-lock on mobs). The only expensive one there is The Retch, and it's more for overkilling to the max. You deal 200% of your leech as damage to whatever you hit. The rest of the belts are around 1-3 Chaos and all fit the build in a more situational way. They fill a niche based on your current needs and resist caps. You could even sit two in your inventory, wear the third, and swap based on the mobs/maps you're running.

BiS for gloves would be a choice between Doedre's Tenure (60% more spell damage is incredible) and "Shadows and Dust" (because Rampage is broken as hell, and it gives you Unholy Might and a Smoke Cloud on Rampage). You actually can't get Shadows and Dust in SSF, so if you're there it would have to be Tenure.

BiS for boots would be Abberath's Hooves, Inya's Epiphany, or (arguably) Brinerot Whalers. The first two are 4+Ex while Brinerot is only a few Chaos at max in Standard. However, Brinerot is Standard only, so if you're in SSF you would probably be better off going for a solid rare boot.

BiS flasks I basically agree with you since it's more based on a personal playstyle.

For gem setup, I use Purity of Elements as the aura. That way I'm able to use more uniques without worrying about my resists dropping. Blood Rage is also a hilariously good skill for this build. Free Frenzy charges and added leech are amazing.

In Path of Building using the two above wands, Heretic's Veil, The Covenant, Doedre's Tenure, Brinerot Whalers, an all-res Citrine Amulet, Le Heup, Ming's, and The Magnate, I'm sitting at just over 500,000 DPS with Conc Effect and 328,000 with Inc AOE.

Blade Vortex 20/20 -> Spell Echo 20/20 -> Added Fire Damage 20/20 -> Efficacy 20/20 -> Controlled Destruction 20/20 -> Concentrated Effect/Increased AOE 20/20

Yea i've been thinking about skipping the Chaos bits too honestly. They're neat, but theres so few nodes to boost it that not sure if you could get more milage out of added fire + some cold damage.

Cyclone doesn't benefit from spell damage at all, and Blood Frenzy i dont think works with it either since blade vortex isn't an attack.

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OromisGlaedr escribió:

You keep mentioning how Abyssal Cry is good for this build, but we're already doing an insane amount of AOE damage through BV itself. Why do we need a damage boost that's reliant on killing an enemy in range of a group of others? Most things should be melting in a second or two already. If anything, I could see using Rallying Cry. It gives you an absurd damage modifier, especially if you're doing maps with double-Beyond, Rifts, Perandus, or extra Strongboxes.

And for BiS,

Spoiler

for the chest it's actually not Carcass Jack. At least, according to Path of Building. The Covenant does give you more DPS since you can have another 20/20 damage support spell since Added Chaos is built in. I'm actually using Added Fire Damage with these two wands.

BiS for helmet is obviously going to be Heretic's Veil. You can't really beat the dual curse setup for mapping.

BiS for rings would be Ming's (like you said) and Le Heup of All. Le Heup is perfect for this build. It gives 10-30% more damage, 10-30 more to all attributes, 10-30% Inc Rarity, and 10-30% All Res. For non SSF, they're cheap to find. For SSF, it's more difficult but you can do it with Chance-ing an Iron Ring base for a while.

BiS for amulet would be Natural Hierarchy, but good luck finding one. They're like 10Ex in Standard.

BiS for belts would be The Retch, The Magnate (for the flask boost and huge Phys boost), Belt of the Deceiver (because Intimidate means they take 10% more damage from all sources), or Doryani's Invitation (for the leech and potential stun-lock on mobs). The only expensive one there is The Retch, and it's more for overkilling to the max. You deal 200% of your leech as damage to whatever you hit. The rest of the belts are around 1-3 Chaos and all fit the build in a more situational way. They fill a niche based on your current needs and resist caps. You could even sit two in your inventory, wear the third, and swap based on the mobs/maps you're running.

BiS for gloves would be a choice between Doedre's Tenure (60% more spell damage is incredible) and "Shadows and Dust" (because Rampage is broken as hell, and it gives you Unholy Might and a Smoke Cloud on Rampage). You actually can't get Shadows and Dust in SSF, so if you're there it would have to be Tenure.

BiS for boots would be Abberath's Hooves, Inya's Epiphany, or (arguably) Brinerot Whalers. The first two are 4+Ex while Brinerot is only a few Chaos at max in Standard. However, Brinerot is Standard only, so if you're in SSF you would probably be better off going for a solid rare boot.

BiS flasks I basically agree with you since it's more based on a personal playstyle.

For gem setup, I use Purity of Elements as the aura. That way I'm able to use more uniques without worrying about my resists dropping. Blood Rage is also a hilariously good skill for this build. Free Frenzy charges and added leech are amazing.

In Path of Building using the two above wands, Heretic's Veil, The Covenant, Doedre's Tenure, Brinerot Whalers, an all-res Citrine Amulet, Le Heup, Ming's, and The Magnate, I'm sitting at just over 500,000 DPS with Conc Effect and 328,000 with Inc AOE.

Blade Vortex 20/20 -> Spell Echo 20/20 -> Added Fire Damage 20/20 -> Efficacy 20/20 -> Controlled Destruction 20/20 -> Concentrated Effect/Increased AOE 20/20

That is some impressive write up you have over there.

Yes. Rallying Cry. That is definitely a great warcry for the build. I will have it included in the guide.

Carcass Jack provides the toughness that Convenant lacks so I would definitely recommend both chests.

I have to agree that having Added Fire damage will give you more damage than Added Chaos. Especially if you use The Covenant.

The skill tree is flexible and you can definitely switch from crit based Chaos to crit based Elemental.

Doedre's Tenure is a great pair of gloves but you will lose too much survival for the damage it provides. Personally, I feel that Atziri's Acuity will be a better pair of gloves for the build and you can spec out Vaal Pact and regain life regen.

Blood rage is only good for the the frenzy charges and you don't benefit from the leech because Blade Vortex is a spell and not an attack. You can certainly use it but I would recommend to have it equipped in the weapon slot so you can perform weapon swap to cancel the degen when you are out of a fight.

It's like what you said, some of the BiS gears you listed will be close to impossible to obtain in SSF but in trading league, definitely a good fit for the build. Especially The Retch.

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nastharl escribió:

Yea i've been thinking about skipping the Chaos bits too honestly. They're neat, but theres so few nodes to boost it that not sure if you could get more milage out of added fire + some cold damage.

Cyclone doesn't benefit from spell damage at all, and Blood Frenzy i dont think works with it either since blade vortex isn't an attack.

As mentioned above, the skill tree is flexible and you can definitely switch and use it as a crit based elemental Blade Vortex with the following links:

Blade Vortex + Controlled Destruction + Concentrated Effect + Added Fire Damage + Physical to Lightning + Spell Echo.

Switch Vulnerability to Elemental Weakness curse and you should rock a higher damage.

On Blood Rage, frenzy charges do provide more casting speed and damage per charge. You don't benefit from the leech like you said.

For Cyclone skill, I just find it great for maneuvering through a pack of monsters during mapping because of it's phasing property. So instead of Whirling Blade, I have Cyclone linked with Faster Attack and Fortify instead for now.

Sorry if I was unclear at the end with Blood Rage. You get increased leech from the Frenzy Charges generated from it, not from the skill itself. Because of the nature of percent based leech, more damage and faster castings directly translate to more leech. You can also add in more utility skills or flasks based on Frenzy Charge consumption such as Rotgut or CWDT-Phase Run.

And the reason I advised Doedre's Tenure over Atziri's Acuity is DD costs around 1 Alch and AA costs minimum 33 Ex.

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OromisGlaedr escribió:

Sorry if I was unclear at the end with Blood Rage. You get increased leech from the Frenzy Charges generated from it, not from the skill itself. Because of the nature of percent based leech, more damage and faster castings directly translate to more leech. You can also add in more utility skills or flasks based on Frenzy Charge consumption such as Rotgut or CWDT-Phase Run.

And the reason I advised Doedre's Tenure over Atziri's Acuity is DD costs around 1 Alch and AA costs minimum 33 Ex.

That make sense on the Blood Rage leech.

I was testing with Tri-curse using


This combo allows me to run Tri-Curse (e.g. Enfeeble + Warlord's Mark + Vulnerability) setup with the build. If you are going Elemental with the build, you can swap Vulnerability to Elemental Weakness.

You can also swap Vulnerability with Temporal Chains.

Divinarius finally dropped for me in SSF.


Currently dual wielding the above. Spells now have culling strike and more spell crit chance.

Have include the above information into the guide.

Thank you for this very nice guide. I am just returning, never played Scion before and looking into SSF builds I could try.
May i ask some naive questions please?

1. Could you please include a section on Map Mods? IIUC, No Leech and Reflect are going to be significant problems, and would like to know what you folks suggest for workarounds for those as well as for no regen.

2. In your guide, you seem to have Arcane Surge at high level, how is that proccing?

3. I don't understand how your character is set up -- it is Lunafrigg, right? If so, a. How are you getting a third curse? b. Is scorching ray (glove), added fire damage (boot), cyclone (helm) just for leveling the gems? c. What happened to Dark Pact? d. you chose Assassin instead of Beserker?

Thanks much!

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onomastikon escribió:

Thank you for this very nice guide. I am just returning, never played Scion before and looking into SSF builds I could try.
May i ask some naive questions please?

1. Could you please include a section on Map Mods? IIUC, No Leech and Reflect are going to be significant problems, and would like to know what you folks suggest for workarounds for those as well as for no regen.

2. In your guide, you seem to have Arcane Surge at high level, how is that proccing?

3. I don't understand how your character is set up -- it is Lunafrigg, right? If so, a. How are you getting a third curse? b. Is scorching ray (glove), added fire damage (boot), cyclone (helm) just for leveling the gems? c. What happened to Dark Pact? d. you chose Assassin instead of Beserker?

Thanks much!

Ans 1: The Convenant has inherent Blood Magic so your Blade Vortex will use life instead of mana. No regen map will not be an issue. Just pop a life flask to re-fill the life. Since the build runs Vaal Pact, you won't have life regen anyway.

At this point I have not died to single reflect mob but I have not test the build in a reflect map. However, equipping Sibyl ring + Soul of Yugul will give you 65% reduced reflect so if you clear a reflect map slowly, it should still be do-able.

Map mods that you will want to skip:
- No leech
- Hexproof (the build relies on curse for survival)

Ans 2: You will need to spam a lot for the skill that is linked to a high level Arcane Surge in order to proc it. A low level Arcane Surge works better when you link it with Dark Pact.

However, if you have Arcane Surge linked with Blade Vortex, you will be able to proc it all the time. Downside is you cannot use The Convenant chest because it does not drain mana. You have to use Carcass Jack instead.

Ans 3: Yes. Lunafrigg is my SSF character. Whispers of Doom allows me to run dual curse. With Windscream boots, I will be able to run the third curse. Heretic's helm has 12% reduced mana reserve. You will be able to run 3 curses in the helm. Socket Enlighten 3 in it will give you more mana.

Scorching Ray, Added Fire and Cyclone are gems that I am leveling. Scorching Ray is intended for Hall of Grandmaster since it is the best skill for it. Added Fire can be used for both Elemental Blade Vortex and Cyclone. And Cyclone is for my other SSF Scion which runs Cyclone.

I switched out Dark Pact because I am running dual curse on Heretic so there is no need for me to use Curse on Hit.

On Assassin, I am testing it out and Berserker still gives more damage.