[3.11] Shaper = Stunned, Tidebreaker Heavy Strike Stunner Build

Hi !

I have a little question (2 maybe...) ...

What map we can't do ?
And this build is viable for all the bosses ?

Thx for the answer :)

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Aphane escribió:

Hi !

I have a little question (2 maybe...) ...

What map we can't do ?
And this build is viable for all the bosses ?

Thx for the answer :)

I never tried Hall of Grandmasters bacause I assumed we can't do this one. All other content is doable, some are easier than other(most content is super easy, just stun-lock and win).

An example of a difficult boss for us is Rigward, because of stun immunity of course, and you will have to learn how to do this fight.

This build isnt reality Ive only managed to kill hydra as a guardian all others I dont have enough life leach to get back on my feet all my resistances are capped I even have 1m dps on path of building. Maybe its just the elemental one that isnt working but still it seems to be very difficult to manage you cant facetank anything

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Lmcsquare escribió:

This build isnt reality Ive only managed to kill hydra as a guardian all others I dont have enough life leach to get back on my feet all my resistances are capped I even have 1m dps on path of building. Maybe its just the elemental one that isnt working but still it seems to be very difficult to manage you cant facetank anything

I looked at your character profile and your items seem to be pretty decent. I think you have shown the reason that you failed to defeat other Guardians with what you just said:

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Lmcsquare escribió:

... I dont have enough life leach to get back on my feet... I even have 1m dps on path of building... very difficult to manage you cant facetank anything

This build is not about face-tanking and leeching back your life against everything. This is a stun build and you should utilize our capability to stun in most fights. For example against Chimera you should not take more than a couple of hits from the boss because you should be able to stun-lock him. Phoenix fight requires a bit of positioning due to adds dealing significant amount of damage. I have written a boss fight tactics section and you might wish to take a look.

Maybe your previous builds were good AFK tank builds, but this one is not. This build is all about active stunning; or against some certain bosses, when stunning doesn't work, you need to retreat from lethal attacks and re-position yourself. Therefore while playing this build, the play-style should be different from most other builds. It might take some time to get used to this build, then you will know how to make use of what we are good at to cover up our weaknesses.

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brightwaha escribió:

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jeffrey0016 escribió:

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brightwaha escribió:

Okay, there is no way this setup does only 150k damage. Were you refering to your tooltip damage? You should do a Path of Building set up to view your real DPS.

There are a number of damage sources not being counted by your tooltip. For instance your tooltip DPS doesn't count Bloodlust and your threshold jewels.

after i put my character in path of building it show 100k damage....
and if i replace bloodlust and stun support with Ancestral Call and Multistrike it have around 120k damage.

Spoiler

Click on the config button and select the following:

Are you always on Full Life. Do you use Frenzy Charges. Do you use Endurance Charges. Do you have Fortify(although this one doesn't matter). Have you Killed Recently(This one is arguable, mostly it's active for clearing, some boss fights with lots of adds, or when you use Writhing Jar). Is the enemy Moving(also slightly arguable, mostly for bleed damage calculation which doesn't really matter). Is the enemy Maimed(doesn't matter). Is the enemy a Boss--Shaper/Guardian.

but still, I click on everything you said on the above i only getting 350k total dps and 53k average dps. But the one you gave us(path of building) show your character have 970k total dps and 300k on average dps...

I tried hydra it took me 1-3 mins to kill him and i cant even stun lock chimera..

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jeffrey0016 escribió:

but still, I click on everything you said on the above i only getting 350k total dps and 53k average dps. But the one you gave us(path of building) show your character have 970k total dps and 300k on average dps...

I tried hydra it took me 1-3 mins to kill him and i cant even stun lock chimera..

I imported your character into my Path of Building, and now I know what's making this difference.

1. You were using Stun Support. Usually I wouldn't recommend using this gem and you can view the Gem Setup page for more information.

2. You were comparing your DPS without any flasks to mine with 4 flasks(some are legacy).

After taking out your Stun Support and putting in Maim Support, your Shaper DPS without flasks is 481k. After cancelling my flasks, my Slayer's Shaper DPS is 485k. They are essentially the same.

With correct gameplay you definitely can stun-lock Chimera. I believe long ago I killed Chimera on first attempt with my Slayer character(my gears were a lot worse), and stun-locked him for the majority of the fight.

EDIT: I just updated my Path of Building links in the build to use non-legacy versions of flasks instead. This should clear some confusions many people had previously.

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brightwaha escribió:

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jeffrey0016 escribió:

but still, I click on everything you said on the above i only getting 350k total dps and 53k average dps. But the one you gave us(path of building) show your character have 970k total dps and 300k on average dps...

I tried hydra it took me 1-3 mins to kill him and i cant even stun lock chimera..

I imported your character into my Path of Building, and now I know what's making this difference.

1. You were using Stun Support. Usually I wouldn't recommend using this gem and you can view the Gem Setup page for more information.

2. You were comparing your DPS without any flasks to mine with 4 flasks(some are legacy).

After taking out your Stun Support and putting in Maim Support, your Shaper DPS without flasks is 481k. After cancelling my flasks, my Slayer's Shaper DPS is 485k. They are essentially the same.

With correct gameplay you definitely can stun-lock Chimera. I believe long ago I killed Chimera on first attempt with my Slayer character(my gears were a lot worse), and stun-locked him for the majority of the fight.

EDIT: I just updated my Path of Building links in the build to use non-legacy versions of flasks instead. This should clear some confusions many people had previously.

oh!!ok thanks a lot :))

Does this build work as a more "offensive" version without tidebreaker? I know the point is stunlock and its going well for mine but I recently swapped to a high dps mace I found and it feels good to destroy everything faster.

I love the stunlock idea and have a decent tidebreaker but I simply want to know if its possible to still survive or do ok without that wep - will there be absolutely no stuns on high tier maps or guardians, etc? Or still stun some bosses just less cosistent, but you will have higher damage too maybe even respec for another weapon type.

Thanks for the guide and your time!

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ZzeDarKNesS escribió:

Does this build work as a more "offensive" version without tidebreaker? I know the point is stunlock and its going well for mine but I recently swapped to a high dps mace I found and it feels good to destroy everything faster.

I love the stunlock idea and have a decent tidebreaker but I simply want to know if its possible to still survive or do ok without that wep - will there be absolutely no stuns on high tier maps or guardians, etc? Or still stun some bosses just less cosistent, but you will have higher damage too maybe even respec for another weapon type.

Thanks for the guide and your time!

Good question. Maybe I should add a section in the thread talking about it.

Let’s start by putting up some numbers. Tidebreaker offers 49% r.E.S.T. and the mace passive wheel offers 18%. If we use another mace and compare the 130% we currently have with 130%-49%=81%, it means a difference in stun capability with an equivalent of 158% difference in DPS. This means you need over 1000 PDPS on your weapon, which is not realistic.

But there is a better way to do it, and this better way is to sacrifice a gem slot and use Stun Support. If we replace Maim Support with Stun Support, which offers exactly 49% r.E.S.T., it basically means we will have the same total r.E.S.T. but losing a 1.3 damage multiplier. This way you only need 560 PDPS and that’s achievable.

If we consider a non-mace type weapon, then it means that we get 112% r.E.S.T. after using Stun Support. The difference is equivalent to 29% difference in DPS, and you will need over 1000 PDPS again in your weapon to reach the same stun capability.

The mace wheel provides some stun duration as well, so using a non-mace weapon is pretty bad when it comes to stunning. Tidebreaker, compared to other maces, provides endurance charge generation; this is a very useful utility but difficult to quantify.

Also another problem with the calculations above is that high DPS weapons usually offer local attack speed, which means a bit more to DPS than to stun capability.

If we now consider that we don’t fight Shaper or Guardians but just fight up to t15 bosses, the story is a bit different. Guardians have 8 million life while t15s have 3, this difference is very close to the 158% difference we obtained above. Which means that if you can consistently stun Guardians with your Tidebreaker, you will consistently stun t15 bosses with a rare mace with the same DPS. Again, you won’t be able to generate endurance charges, but you do clear faster.

One thing I do want to mention is that you usually need to run a different gem setup for mapping; whether you do Sunder or Heavy Strike Ancestral Call, it’s some DPS loss over there. So you do need to have a good plan as to what setup to use for mapping and for bossing.

To compile all the mess above: if you aim to stun Shaper, non-mace weapons are almost not viable; rare maces are doable but you will need Stun Support and the cost is a 1.3 damage multiplier from Maim Support. If you aim to just farm maps, you will be able to stun them safely with any rare mace with the single target setup; but with an AoE setup it’s very difficult again. Non-mace type for mapping is fine, but to stun map bosses you also need Stun Support.

And to speak from my experience: I have been playing with my Mirrored rare mace for quite some time, and with Sunder and Onslaught Support I cannot stun even t13 bosses without flasks. A good setup for AoE usually is pretty bad for stunning bosses and that’s why it’s best to have two weapons when you are rich enough to afford doing so. And when you have a weapon for clearing purposes only, knowing that you have your alternative weapon ready for boss stunning, you can play with what you want; you can use any weapon with any reasonable skill and still stun most trash or rare mobs you encounter.

@brightwaha

Want to say thank you for your awesome build, i had fun moments with stun locking everything. Also great forum guide. I'm done with build now, just want to share some thoughts about build.

I did red elder and shaper. Nothing special about elder, stunlock to portal phase and its done.

About shaper, stunning him is not that easy as i expect (as slayer), but i managed to do it.

My stats:

Life: 7K.

Life Leech per sec: 3.3K

Shaper DPS: 493K (746K with Flasks)



Things that i loved about build:

1- Safe mapping with slayer leech and ability to doing every modes except No leech and Phys ref. (Have to be careful about this mode "Monster can't be stunned").

2- Combination of Ancestral call support and Impact ascendancy is satisfying.

3- Best character for me to doing uber runs.

4- Abyss rare monster and Lich boss was like joke.

Things that hurt me with this build:

1- I never learn anything about boss mechanics, Kappa.(Most of the time they were stunned)

2- Dark Forest map boss is pain in the ass.

3- Guardian of the phoenix was hard for me.

Tnx again for nice build and guide.