[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice EleRaider - Viable for Everything

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lilianmarius escribió:

Maybe someone with more experience regarding calculations can enlighten me if is worth to drop Fire penetration gem in favor of CtF gem

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Fire Penetration is equivalent to 38-152% MORE damage depending on the enemy resists. It can make the target's resists negative, so against an enemy with no Fire resistance it makes their resistance go to -38% resulting in 38% MORE damage. A boss with max Fire resistance (hard capped at 75%) would take only 25% of incoming fire damage without penetration. But this gem penetrates 38% of it and makes them take 25+38=63% damage dealt, or 152% MORE.

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lilianmarius escribió:

Made some tests with keeping 2x Perandus rings + AoF + CtF gem but dropping Fire Penetration gem in favor of CtF gem needed to run with 2x Perandus. DPS tool tip in this combo was 13641.5 in hideout with just the golem and 19062.5 with golem and EO . Also ES went up from 12009 to 12644 thanks to second Perandus ring

I ran some end game maps (T15-T16) and few Shaper runs with these 2 variants and cant say which is better. Maybe someone with more experience regarding calculations can enlighten me if is worth to drop Fire penetration gem in favor of CtF gem , and switch back to 2x legacy Perandus + AoF . For end game content (especially T16 Bosses + Shaper) does 39% Fire Penetration (changed with CtF gem) worth way more than 6k tooltip DPS (with golem and EO) lost when switching to Pyre ?

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Kelvynn escribió:

Build Theory - Offense - More details:

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Fire Penetration is equivalent to 38-152% MORE damage ...

FP is your best DPS gem for the endgame and especially the bosses.

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aRTy42 escribió:

Penetration is really good when the enemy is tough. I'm not sure if I understood your numbers correctly: You have ~19k dps with golem and EO and you say you lose more than 6k with fire dps, so I guess your lower value is something like 12-13k? In that case fire penetration would need to result in roughly a factor of 1.5 (=50% more damage) to be equally good .

Depending on the enemies' base fire resistance and how high you can stack the scorching ray debuff, the usefullness of fire resistance varies:



Worst case scenario (top left table cell):
The enemy has a base resistance of 0 and you fully stack scorching ray (without killing the enemy already), then you only get a factor of 1.3 out of fire penetration (=30% more damage). This is certainly worse than your other option, but even this worst case is not horrible.

Even out scenario:
Most map bosses seem to have 30 elemental resistance (including Atziri), the 4 T16 map guardians and the shaper have 40. Depending on scorching ray the factor is about 1.39-1.60 (=39-60% more).

Best case scenario:
There is a map mod which gives +20, +30 or +40 to monster ele resistances (depending on the map tier) and there are non-boss monster that have up to 75 base fire res. Consequently the map boss can have 30+40 = 70 base fire resistance and monsters 75+40 = 115, those cases the fire penetration gem is extremely beneficial, with factors ranging from 1.66 (70 res, not in the table) up to 2.30. This equals 66-130% more damage, so you might gain more than double damage.

Conclusion / TLDR:
Fire penetration is most likely the better option. There are cases where you can gain a bit more with other gems, but you probably faceroll those enemies anyway. You will often encounter monsters where fire pen is about as good as other gems, so nothing is lost there. You can encounter very tough enemies where fire pen is highly beneficial, so you avoid running into enemies that take ages to kill.

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Kelvynn escribió:

Build Theory - Offense - More details:

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Fire Penetration is equivalent to 38-152% MORE damage ...

FP is your best DPS gem for the endgame and especially the bosses.

Your calculation is missing the 5% penetration from the ascendant's elementalist node and the effect of scorching ray.

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pingky escribió:

Is it possible to skip Astramentis and go with Eye of Chayula instead? This would save a significant amount of passive points in exchange for about -90 to all attributes. It's probably quite difficult to make up for those lost stats, but I could see it possible in standard with the gained jewel sockets going toward Emperor's Mastery jewels or something.

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radimmc escribió:

Hello, first i wanna thank you coz this is the first build with which i could farm higher tier maps and so on.. But when comes to Shaper, i need 5 teleports to get him to 50% oneshot, oneshot, oneshot even with flasks.. :D Took same setup like u. What am i doing wrong? He just ignores every mitigation :D. at 8,7k ES atm. I won't probably repeat that again coz it's expensive :D maybe next league.But tips are welcome.. Thank you :)

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pingky escribió:

Is it possible to skip Astramentis and go with Eye of Chayula instead? This would save a significant amount of passive points in exchange for about -90 to all attributes. It's probably quite difficult to make up for those lost stats, but I could see it possible in standard with the gained jewel sockets going toward Emperor's Mastery jewels or something.