[3.2] Scionic Flametank "16k ES ed." (ES-CI-ZO-GR, SR-CWC-FS, extensive guide)

If you wanna cross gaps you could have Flame Dash on a weapon swap! Hell you could put anything on a swap: Leap Slam, Lightning Warp.

Leap Slam with Brightbeak and a 3G Prismatic Eclipse would probably be the best setup.

Okay, examined the links. If you just want SC-FA without FO it can be done by weakening the EO CWDT moderately (something that occasionally but not that often WILL make EO drop off in solo boss fights) and rearranging three links.

Revised SC-FA version:

Helm:
Shield Charge (level and quality irrelevant, damage is minimal either way)
Faster Attacks 10-20, quality 20 (level depending on dex; if more than base 80 from amulet+jewels, use higher level than 10)
CWDT 1
Blood Rage 6

Boots:
CWDT 1
Immortal Call 3
Increased Critical Strikes 20, quality 20
Ice Spear 8, quality 20

Shield:
Discipline 20
Vitality 20
Arctic Armour 16-20 depending on dex


The full SC-FA-FO just cannot be achieved without sacrificing another socket in a link. Which raises the question: Would it be worth sacrificing either Vitality, Arctic Armour, or Warlord's Mark for gaining Fortify?

If that was the only cost, probably, but remembering that the cost of moving around to trigger fortify would also reset Tukohama's regeneration and mitigation bonuses? I am not so sure, and there's something to be said for the simplicity of "just stand still and flame things to death".

Of the three Warlord's Mark would be the easiest to sacrifice - it costs extra skillpoints to get, it doesn't apply to hexproof enemies, it only applies in reduced form to bosses, and removing it would free up some skillpoints that could be used for more regeneration or shield.

On the other hand, it does provide charges on trash that increase the duration of Immortal Call, which is certainly nice, and without it there'd be no life leeching on bosses without adds around to kill. And even if it doesn't always max out leech on solo bosses, 10-15% ES recovery from leech is still a lot.

So... not obvious, but might make for an interesting variant.

Great job on the revamp Pi2rEpsilon. Really enjoyed reading through it and learning some cool interactions I wasn't aware of before. I have a weak spot for tank builds and now I must give this a run as it looks too good to pass up.

I read your thoughts on straight inquisitor a few pages back but didn't see anything about occultist. Wicked ward is pretty incredible at a base of 20% (higher with tree) regen when you can to proc it. Vile bastion somewhat makes up for the extra leech loss from berserker. Then of course there's the free double curse (which would mainly just free up some points), decent ES boost, and profane bloom to aid in clear speed. I'm still going with scion at the moment for mine but I was more curious than anything how you felt they compared.

Edit: I guess I should clarify that on packs I do feel the scion is most likely defensively stronger. On bosses though where the on kill effects of both trickster and berserker don't work most of the time, the occultist defenses sounds like it could be better while also still being quite strong during regular mapping. You would also need to invest a couple points in essence surge and maybe some leo craft faster start of energy shield regen to push down the 2 second activation of wicked ward to something more like 1.5 seconds.

Thanks!

Zenzen, let me make clear that apart from Scion Tri-Ber (or Tri-Occ), I am damn sure the build will also work well as:

Shadow/Trickster (Patient Reaper, Ghost Dance, Shade Form, Swift Killer)
Witch/Occultist (Wicked Ward, Vile Bastion, Profane Bloom, Malediction)
Templar/Inquisitor (Sanctify, Pious Path, Augury of Penitence, Instruments of Virtue)
Marauder/Chieftain (Ngamahu, Hinekora, Tawhoa, Ramako)

All with their own advantages and disadvantages. The only one of these that gets the second recovery bonus is the Shadow, the only one that gets the ES leech on hexproof is the Chieftain, and these two issues really are the greatest strike against the others despite their individual strengths, which are very substantial.

With Witch/Occultist the major thing is not going to be Wicked Ward's recharge (though the base ES from that mode is great) and investing any skillpoints on improving recharging or lowering its time to start will weaken the build - the opportunity cost is too great for the minimal benefit.

The reason I say this is that to start recharging you need to:
a) Take damage
b) Avoid taking damage for 2s (or 1.5s as you suggest with skill point investment)
c) Remain damaged after the interval in b) is up

The last is harder than you might think.

If all these hold true, then you'll start recharging, which aborts as soon as you hit full ES. Which you'll likely do in the blink of an eye - because you are already at near full ES by the time the recharge starts.

2s is a LONG time without being hit. If a witch occultist has 2% to regenerate hitpoints merely with the Arakali recovery bonus she has recovered around 70% through regeneration (assuming standing still and using Sulphur Flask).

And that's if she isn't under the influence of Vile Bastion from killing monsters recently and doesn't have several leech instances every second due to ongoing firestorms pushing her recovery further.

So you are at the point of spending skillpoints on driving down the recharge delay in order for it to be possible for recharge to kick in at all before you are at full ES.

This likely only happens if you don't stand still flaming things (and if you don't stand still, you don't get the Tukohama bonuses) or there aren't any monsters around, in which case you don't need it in the first place, because if you stand still flaming you tend to get hit so long as there are monsters remaining.

Notwithstanding what I just wrote, I am sure there will be times when the recharge does kick in and is useful, especially if one tailors one's playing style around utilizing recharge rather than playing the stationary turret that the build encourages, but considering that every skillpoint spent on driving down the recharge delay for the few situations where recharge will kick in and be useful is a skillpoint not spent on increasing the regen% or the maxES% (either directly or through strength), something that will help recovery at all times.

Finally GR halves the ES recharge recovery.

So while I am sure that a Witch Occultist version of this will do great (I love Vile Bastion on regeneration builds since large groups of enemies are typically the only real threat if one is at least half awake, and +100 base ES, three skillpoints freed up from getting +1 curse natively, and extra chaos damage is very nice too), I don't see how deviating from a focus on regeneration (and leech) in favour of boosting recharge can do anything but weaken it (unless one was to completely redesign it to be recharge focused and drop GR in the process, that is, at which point it will effectively be an entirely different build).

Would you keep the tree the same for a Cheiftan version?

What would the pros/cons be?

Would probably have to work in a Flame Totem.

Could potentially be in the 6th link of the chest.

@livejamie - I'll get back to you later.

----

Finally finished uploading a video of a 6m 22s Forge of the Phoenix fragment run. It is with very easy mods because the primary purpose was getting a fragment without any risk. Desecrated ground (hah) and increased cast/attack/movement speed.

Here is the result:

https://youtu.be/YkhTXnbJuWg

Note that Phoenix should not be facetanked like I do here if the map has nasty mods, and that I highly recommend overcapping fire resistance by 50% on Phoenix for a smooth experience if you are going to take its firebomb on the chin.

(My visit to this map to get the +1% bonus on a corrupted yellow map featured a much longer boss fight for obvious reasons: nasty mods are nasty.)

"

livejamie escribió:

Would you keep the tree the same for a Cheiftan version?

What would the pros/cons be?

Would probably have to work in a Flame Totem.

Could potentially be in the 6th link of the chest.

For a Chieftain version, I think I'd do something like this POB pastebin shows. Practically the same tree as the 92 Scion example, just pruned a bit due to fewer skillpoints. The next three skillpoints from here should slot in the third EFT.

No flame totems involved anywhere. For the Marauder I suggested Chieftain rather than Berserker for the 10% strength bonus, extra regeneration, and fire leech.

Ascendancy: Ngamahu, Hinekora, Tawhoa, Ramako in that order, so you start leeching after cruel, get the 10% strength after merciful, and start generating endurance charges for the Immortal Call to eat after eternal labyrinth.

The Chieftain's recovery through regeneration is less than the Scion's due to the loss of the trickster bonus, but on the other hand he always leeches with fire at all times and generates endurance charges when killing so he has no need whatsoever for Warlord's except for easier reaching leech cap. Which suggests that the smart thing to do is to swap the Warlord's Mark for Enfeeble, so he autocurses Enfeeble + Flammability when hit.

Alternatively Elemental Weakness + Flammability if more of a damage focus, or you could dump the second curse entirely and reroute the skillpoints freed up to grant more ES or life regen%.

In total it ends up a bit weaker than the Scion defensively due to less recovery if not using enfeeble as second curse, and perhaps a bit stronger when using it. Which also suggests that hexfont maps will be nastier for the Chieftain version.

OTOH, if you really want to use Fortify as in Shield Charge-Fortify and spend more time moving around in combat to get the Fortify buff rather than standing still, then the Chieftain version can easily afford to give up the dual cursing, freeing up the single socket that is needed to replace FD with SC-FO.


(The truth is that the Scion version can also afford to give up Warlord's Mark the way the development has led it, though it is handy for generating those charges for IC to eat and for easier maximizing life recovery from leech. One of these day's I'll have to try Flammability+Enfeeble again on the Scion to get a feel for how it works out in practice with the latest iteration of the build.)

------

Also, I updated the guide with some minor changes based on comments here and elsewhere, and uploaded the most boring video ever:

Passive defenses kill über Izaro in 3 minutes 23 seconds while I'm AFK

Watching it is about as stimulating as watching paint dry, but you did indicate that that sort of "most boring ever" video was one of the things you (and presumably others) might be interested in.

So, having finally hit 92 with this build, I ventured back into the Hall of the Grand Masters, where Pi2rEpsilon and my Ngamahu Cycloner had previously fallen. Revenge was due.

At the end of the first hall, we had the pleasure of meeting up with mull_gubben, a particularly nasty CI max spell block character. We spent 3 or 4 minutes flaming away at each other, neither able to whittle down the others defenses, before I opened a portal and gave my Cycloner a try. He failed miserably too, so went back to our Lady flamer, and with a fresh Sulphur Flask + an Atziri's Promise, we got him down. If he'd stood still, we'd have been fine, but the way he jumped about proved a real pain for keeping SR focused on him!

The rest of the run was much easier, and so one of my last few Atlas maps is now unlocked.

My current gear is below, and gives me a smidgen over 14k ES, and still with room for improvement, particularly amongst the jewels and Helm.

You'll notice I've off-loaded a large chunk of my resists to the jewels, as this allows for crafting Strength onto the Helm and Shield, and generally provides more flexibility, plus the option to buy cheaper high ES gear, that might lack good resists and so put other buyers off.

New video: Dual Flametank run of the Hall of Grandmasters

Important note: Swap out flasks so you have anti-curse and anti-ignite covered in addition to the usual anti-freeze and anti-bleed. You don't need them during normal mapping, but once you've been quad-cursed by one grandmaster while two or three others are wailing on you, you become a believer.

So have you tried Shaper yet? Would this be able to tank Shaper's slam?