ZiggyD's Etheral Knives Mana Shield Scion/Shadow Build Guide - Hardcore (Updated for 1.1)

Thanks ZiggyD, I am trying this build with some questions. I am lv68 now in Nemesis and kinda of stuck here. DPS and Survivability seems not strong enough to progress to MAP and farm Piety

Here are my stats, and equips,I have 3.9K HP, 2K DPS, 4K armor, 2.2K mana, runing Grace, Hatred, Clarity, and AA.


Passive


It seems I need another 6 levels to get Aura passive to run another, which i plan to do with purity. Then i can switch my shield to a DPS one. But if I do that, means my armor will still stuck on 4K which is very dangerous in MAP unless I run Determination, which will keep my DPS low again.

So, do you mind to advise how could I improve in both Survivability and DPS?

Thanks a lot

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CantripN escribió:

It's like 2 AM, so I won't go into detail, but...

Even +60% Increased Spell Damage (or even 100+, sometimes) is significantly worse than +X Spell Level. The more Increased Damage you already have, the less any more of that will matter, and the more MORE matter.

Why?

Because +X Spell Damage is effectively a MORE modifier on damage. Anything that changes the BASE damage of the spells makes all your existing Spell Damage / Cast Speed mean so much more.
If you're not clear what the difference between MORE and INCREASED:
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Mod_Stacking

It's not 100%, always better, especially if you have like 800 STR (doable, but takes a lot of wasted gear on it), but in terms of what's generally true, this is.

I'm a firm believer of trial-and-error, though, so try both out and see. Empower Level 3 isn't wasted on this build even if you don't use it on EK, since AA and Clarity benefit very nicely from it, as well.

I would have replied sooner, but I've been trying to figure out what you mean here. I still don't quite get it, though. Mainly, I don't see that Spell Damage is a 'More' boost ('More' boosts are supposed to be rather rare; it doesn't make sense to me that a stat on an entire line of both weapons and shields would be considered 'rare'). Frankly, while the link you gave was definitely interesting reading, I'm not sure if it really applies here. However, while trying to figure this out, I think I might have stumbled across the reason for Empower over Iron Will: base damage. I actually stumbled across it because of Hatred and Ming's Heart. If I'm understanding correctly, Empower's level bonus increases the base damage of EK, and that higher base damage is then factored into all the damage increases, so what seems like a minor 20% damage boost would end up being much greater. Iron Will, on the other hand, has to use the lower damage, so it doesn't get the damage as high. If I were to compare just Empower and Iron Will, I'd probably see more damage from Iron Will, but once you start factoring in all the other bonuses, Empower probably does come out ahead.

That was what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

Anything that changes the Base Damage of the spell, makes all other things that further affect it stronger, as well. So, Empower level 3, for example, is like a +20% (more or less) MORE modifier, on all you damage.

I'll give you a clearer example:

Pain Attunement - while on Low-Life, your Spell do 30% MORE damage.
EK level 20 = 543.5 Avg. Damage / EK level 22 = 661 Avg. Damage (aka: x1.216 Damage from EK level 20, so like 21.6% MORE damage). Added Fire, as well as Hatred, and Ming's Heart, are all affected by this, as well.

Thus, it's like a MORE modifier.
That said, EK is one of the few spells where Empower is that good, because it affects all of the above - on most other spells (except Bear Trap), it's not great (the exception being when used on a +1 Gems Staff, so you can get a level 24-26 Spell).

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CantripN escribió:

That was what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

Anything that changes the Base Damage of the spell, makes all other things that further affect it stronger, as well. So, Empower level 3, for example, is like a +20% (more or less) MORE modifier, on all you damage.

I'll give you a clearer example:

Pain Attunement - while on Low-Life, your Spell do 30% MORE damage.
EK level 20 = 543.5 Avg. Damage / EK level 22 = 661 Avg. Damage (aka: x1.216 Damage from EK level 20, so like 21.6% MORE damage). Added Fire, as well as Hatred, and Ming's Heart, are all affected by this, as well.

Thus, it's like a MORE modifier.
That said, EK is one of the few spells where Empower is that good, because it affects all of the above - on most other spells (except Bear Trap), it's not great (the exception being when used on a +1 Gems Staff, so you can get a level 24-26 Spell).

See, to me, any Spell gem would benefit from Empower the same way that EK does. The only real difference would be that you'd have to invest in Elemental damage boosts instead of Physical damage boosts (since EK is the only spell that does Physical damage). In the same way that Empower makes EK more effective by boosting it's base damage, the same thing should apply to any spell you link Empower to. The only thing you really need on the gem it's linked to is for it to specify how much damage it actually does (something all spell gems do), so things like Spell Damage and Elemental Damage make that 'minor' boost much more effective than it initially seems.

Other spells are not always 100% reliant on the BASE SPELL DAMAGE, such as with Added Cold/Lighting/Chaos (that are not connected to it), or have significantly better supports available, such as Concentrated Effect, or said Added X supports, LMP/GMP, or Critical hit supports.

Your 20-40 skill tree is inconsistent with the other skill trees, im confused (specifcally the green nodes down )

First off, thank you ZiggyD for posting this build with video and a well written guide!!!!

I started this build a couple weeks ago on Domination (only been playing since late Nov, so still trying to figure stuff out before jumping to HC) and have reached level 73. I must say that I am very impressed with how well this girl can tank (whether face-tanking or being wily).
On the other hand, I find my dps slightly disconcerting, altho to be fair my EK is still only 18 with 4 supports at 17; so still much room for improvement. During the Dominus cruel fight, I was the only character that didn't die (haven't done merci yet).

I have been looking for a build to start in HC; once the new leagues start, I think I have found my build :)

During my leveling journey, I did stray just a tad from your suggested path, but that was due to what I needed at the time as well as the gear I was wearing. I think that your path is solid tho.




Stats at a glance; hp 3549, mana 3552; 977 unreserved after Clarity/Discipline/Hatred/AA, 252 MRpS, dps 4573.

I did consider trying to do a 2nd cwdt setup with immortal call+increased duration, but trying to get RRR+G on my gloves wasn't happening hehehe. So I went with crowd control; Temp Chains+Incr. Dur.+Incr. AoE....actually I think that works just as well.

@Rawnur; read the comments that Ziggy posted in his suggested leveling path for 0-20 and 40-60 (and also mentions in his video, iirc). The projectile damage is respec'd to mana (altho that is where I differed: I kept pd and got mana, and didn't respec until I was 4 nodes away from Purity of Flesh).

Again, Thanks for a great guide!!!

What about Unwavering Stance? It synergies good with Iron Reflexes and you don't lose much at being unable to evade since your Dex doesn't provide evasion bonus, it is also 6 points away from the build.

EDIT: Since ZiggyD said he doesn't feel like he gets stunned that much with this build, this would be more of an alternative against heavy stunners in PvP (Ground Slam + Multistrike = Forever stunned).

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joanthedark escribió:

What about Unwavering Stance?

Is not it too far from passive skill tree? May be try it together with Iron Grip should be good but where to get 6-8 skill points to it? :(

It is way to 90lvl+ i think but a very few players will have this build on this lvl to test it.

Someone any experience with this variant?

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spiky0209 escribió:

Thanks ZiggyD, I am trying this build with some questions. I am lv68 now in Nemesis and kinda of stuck here. DPS and Survivability seems not strong enough to progress to MAP and farm Piety

Here are my stats, and equips,I have 3.9K HP, 2K DPS, 4K armor, 2.2K mana, runing Grace, Hatred, Clarity, and AA.

Spoiler

Passive

Spoiler

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAACGcRlhUgGDwZihqPHNwdqh6UKPoppSpNLOktgy2oL28xnjWSOuE_J0GHRZ1GcUp9SshN404qVcZWLVuvZ6Buqm-ecLt6qn_Ggh6Cx4MJh3aIQojxj0aTJ5M6lwaa4Ju1plenCKw_rFmsf7GQtAy18rc-t9a4k70nwcXDOsSiykrPZdDQ2RPbC9tZ3FfdDeGI52Pr7vJF9tr56PsJ_MX-Cv6P

It seems I need another 6 levels to get Aura passive to run another, which i plan to do with purity. Then i can switch my shield to a DPS one. But if I do that, means my armor will still stuck on 4K which is very dangerous in MAP unless I run Determination, which will keep my DPS low again.

So, do you mind to advise how could I improve in both Survivability and DPS?

Thanks a lot

Put your lightning trap to wand so it gets the +2 lightning bonus?
You need spell damage shield up to 80 spell damage.
also you should have cast speed wand

all your rings and amulet are total junk.
you need life,resist,spelldamage or cast speed jewelry..

basically you should get better gear.
6-link armor and much better gear.

You have to get rustic sash, your damage input is terrible.