[3.21] 🌿Ultimate Claw Poison Pathfinder - Untouchable Viper - Molten Strike update by FEL

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JayCy escribió:

"The Elder-influenced Weapon modifiers that grant a chance for Poisons or Bleeds inflicted with this Weapon to deal 100% more Damage have been removed. In their place, Elder-influenced Weapons can now roll a new Local Poison or Bleed Damage over Time Multiplier modifier. The double damage chance modifiers were too multiplicatively powerful for these builds, providing power that only the modifier granted, so they've been changed to an effect that is additive with other Bleed/Poison damage multipliers."

From the manifesto...really hurts this build.

Yep, it's pretty hammered.

My own idiot testing in PoB for this nerf (straight removing the mod from claws, replacing it with a T4 Poison damage mod from Hunter) only resulted in ~18-22% DPS decrease for a Viper Strike Clawsfinder I had in Ritual, which honestly isn't that bad? Going from 10 million DPS to 8.3 is whatever in my book, and it's a damn sight better than what's happened to the poor bow versions. It turns out that poison on ranged attacks was held up by that load-bearing mod!

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TorsteinTheFallen escribió:

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JayCy escribió:

"The Elder-influenced Weapon modifiers that grant a chance for Poisons or Bleeds inflicted with this Weapon to deal 100% more Damage have been removed. In their place, Elder-influenced Weapons can now roll a new Local Poison or Bleed Damage over Time Multiplier modifier. The double damage chance modifiers were too multiplicatively powerful for these builds, providing power that only the modifier granted, so they've been changed to an effect that is additive with other Bleed/Poison damage multipliers."

From the manifesto...really hurts this build.

Yep, it's pretty hammered.

Its pretty hammered, but dont you have a video of good gear + wasps nest still killing A8. We basically just have to be able to craft something better than wasps nest to at least still be decent right? It definitely gets hurt but is the build DoA? I enjoyed it in 3.13 and really wanted to league start this in 3.14

League-starting with the build should be perfectly fine, it's just that fights with endgame bosses will take a bit longer. Honestly it's still way the hell ahead from when I first played a Clawsfinder back in like... Metamorph? Blight? Back then I was happy when I first broke like 3 million fully-charged DPS but now you can get that without trying very hard. It's gotten weaker for no particularly justifiable reason, but it's not like a Molten Strike level armageddon here.

Well, there goes a good chunk of our damage, gone with the wind.

However, I noticed something interesting in manifesto, from nerfs to poison sextant:

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Note to partially compensate as we believe self-Poison is an interesting playstyle, we have added a new Unique item that retains the Damage and Movement Speed per Poison stats. However these stats will now be capped at a specific value.

Sextant selfpoison gave 12% increased damage per poison, which resulted in 1200% increased damage on 100 poisons, even if it is capped at 1/4th of that, it should still be awesome.

We will have to see what slot that new item takes, but it could potentially be enough to kinda compensate for the nerf, taking that new item slot + the golden rule jewel might be viable for boosting dps. However it comes with downside of getting unaffected by poison mod somewhere.
According to some people we need 150-200% multi to compensate, never gonna happen on a single mod or local poison from elder, but hunter's mods could be tempting.

I dont think the build is dead, but at first glance it hurts :(

Curious about patch notes :)

Deleted

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indigoBot escribió:

Well, there goes a good chunk of our damage, gone with the wind.

However, I noticed something interesting in manifesto, from nerfs to poison sextant:

"

Note to partially compensate as we believe self-Poison is an interesting playstyle, we have added a new Unique item that retains the Damage and Movement Speed per Poison stats. However these stats will now be capped at a specific value.

Sextant selfpoison gave 12% increased damage per poison, which resulted in 1200% increased damage on 100 poisons, even if it is capped at 1/4th of that, it should still be awesome.

We will have to see what slot that new item takes, but it could potentially be enough to kinda compensate for the nerf, taking that new item slot + the golden rule jewel might be viable for boosting dps. However it comes with downside of getting unaffected by poison mod somewhere.
According to some people we need 150-200% multi to compensate, never gonna happen on a single mod or local poison from elder, but hunter's mods could be tempting.

I dont think the build is dead, but at first glance it hurts :(

Curious about patch notes :)

How do people get 150~200% this number?
From my estimate, 70~140% DoT multiplier could fully cover the elder mod

multi to compensate = (100 + DoT multi in build) * 0.6(elder mod) / 1.3(pathfinder)
Assume a league start scenario, no DoT multi on gear and only 30% from passives, if new elder mod give 60% DoT multi, damage would not change at all.

Guess the main reason why Thorstein is so pissed is that this build doesn´t get any benefits.

Deleting the bleed mod was justified for 3 simple reasons:
- Bleed was in a better position than Poison anyway
- Bleed gets, at least following the Manifesto, further Clusters on the Passive Tree, making it possible to grab more damage
- Bleed did scale better with additional phys anyway.

From a design standpoint getting rid of that mod is kinda understandeable as it made the items pretty 100/0 - if you don´t have that mod your weapon can´t be used. This makes a swap to some elder-weapons easier as we now have a wider range of mods that can roll which supposedly can be used. But - at least based on the Manifesto Information - Bleed comes out better here than poison. My comment on hitting Sirus for 5min was of course exxagerated, but I´ve put 750ex in this char and barely scratched 40mio bossing dps. If I lose the elder mod i´ll drop down to 23mio (of course not taking into consideration any other mod I can get). This is in my humble opinion just not justifyable if you have close to perfect and BiS-Gear.

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daniel23915600 escribió:

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indigoBot escribió:

Well, there goes a good chunk of our damage, gone with the wind.

However, I noticed something interesting in manifesto, from nerfs to poison sextant:

"

Note to partially compensate as we believe self-Poison is an interesting playstyle, we have added a new Unique item that retains the Damage and Movement Speed per Poison stats. However these stats will now be capped at a specific value.

Sextant selfpoison gave 12% increased damage per poison, which resulted in 1200% increased damage on 100 poisons, even if it is capped at 1/4th of that, it should still be awesome.

We will have to see what slot that new item takes, but it could potentially be enough to kinda compensate for the nerf, taking that new item slot + the golden rule jewel might be viable for boosting dps. However it comes with downside of getting unaffected by poison mod somewhere.
According to some people we need 150-200% multi to compensate, never gonna happen on a single mod or local poison from elder, but hunter's mods could be tempting.

I dont think the build is dead, but at first glance it hurts :(

Curious about patch notes :)

How do people get 150~200% this number?
From my estimate, 70~140% DoT multiplier could fully cover the elder mod

multi to compensate = (100 + DoT multi in build) * 0.6(elder mod) / 1.3(pathfinder)
Assume a league start scenario, no DoT multi on gear and only 30% from passives, if new elder mod give 60% DoT multi, damage would not change at all.

Well most simple way of testing it is to remove the mod from claws and replace it with chaos dot multi mod then play with numbers until similar dps is shown. At least that's how I did it just to verify the rough ballpark of nerf and reddit comments on those numbers.

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Vennto escribió:

This is in my humble opinion just not justifyable if you have close to perfect and BiS-Gear.

Agree.. If we can afford to invest stupid amounts of currency, we should expect atleast some stupid amount of dps to match it. It seems like ps/vs got caught for no reason in the crossfire of nerfing.

I really hope this build is not dead now, it was so fun/good in nearly all content.