[3.8] DoomHerald | All Content | Millions+ DPS MirageArcher | 7k+ Life | 600+ Delves | 5-Link only

Need some "guidance", what to upgrade next, besides two abyss slots bubonic trails.
PoB: https://pastebin.com/feWeGvYA
6k hp, 1m dps, red elder went deathless, t15 are deathless (can't drop t16), got destroyed by uber atziri.

gained as extra isnt double dipping because doomfletch doesnt convert it's gained as extra. Youre not getting the extra twice on the same damage. Its once on the base phys than once on each element. Think of it this way if it was all one damage type the extra chaos would be the same number because assume all the damage types were 100. thats 4 13s which is 52. now imagine its just 400 damage. Some quick math shows that 13% of 400 is still 52. Double Dipping would be having the 52 from the 400. converting 200 to something else then getting 26 from that. Since you dont have any real conversion like pyre or cold to fire or call of the brotherhood youre not gaining any more benefit from that mod than if you were all one damage type.

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Savage_of escribió:

gained as extra isnt double dipping because doomfletch doesnt convert it's gained as extra. Youre not getting the extra twice on the same damage. Its once on the base phys than once on each element. Think of it this way if it was all one damage type the extra chaos would be the same number because assume all the damage types were 100. thats 4 13s which is 52. now imagine its just 400 damage. Some quick math shows that 13% of 400 is still 52. Double Dipping would be having the 52 from the 400. converting 200 to something else then getting 26 from that. Since you dont have any real conversion like pyre or cold to fire or call of the brotherhood youre not gaining any more benefit from that mod than if you were all one damage type.

It does not matter if you convert or gain as extra for 'gain as extra chaos' -> which is the modifier that lets us 'doubledip'.

In fact 'gain as extra' is superior since you actually deal that damagetype as well and are not just converting them down the chain and never actually applying them.

And you miss the point of gaining all 3 elemental damage types as one - all nodes that give 'increased elemental damage' as well as all gear that gives 'increased elemental damage with attack skills' etc all tripple dip. They apply once for each element.

And those gains we convert to extra chaos. Dipping into all those gains again. NVM the more multi from penetration on our elemental damage.

Your example is just bogus. If we assume phys damage is indeed 100 - then with Doomfletch we are dealing indeed 400 damage.

Now - and here is were you mental gymnastics fail - you assume in your next example that you would have a flat 400 value (where from?) and just repeat your % math. Which is just backwards.

If you want to make the comparison between 'gained as extra' and 'conversion' you would have to actually stay with your own dang parameters. Meaning: the damage is 100.

In a conversion example that means (assumeing you can perfectly convert 100% of your damage from one element to the next - which you cannot currently in the game) - that you deal 100 fire Damage + (52 chaos):

100 phys (you gain 13 chaos) to 100 lighting (you gain 13 chaos) to 100 cold (you gain 13 chaos) to 100 fire (you gain 13 chaos) -> fire is the last damage type you convert to: you deal 100 fire damage and 52 chaos damage.

^THIS IS how you compare two mechanics. You use the same dang stats. Now - Doomfletch has a lower base value on its phys damage then most other weapons - and I assume thats why you went of the rails and compared 100 + 3*extra with 400(?!?)+ conversion.

But as pointed out before - you miss the point:

This is were the general %increase to elemental damage modifiers come in - where the trippledipping of the penetration from shroud comes in etc etc. We actually deal all those damagetypes due to the %extra modifier and apply more modifiers that affect them.

Could we be getting even more Damage out of this if we start to convert one or more elements we gained again down the chain? Sure?
Practically spoken though we have no room for it in our gear and no way to actually do so.

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Lindean escribió:

Need some "guidance", what to upgrade next, besides two abyss slots bubonic trails.
PoB: https://pastebin.com/feWeGvYA
6k hp, 1m dps, red elder went deathless, t15 are deathless (can't drop t16), got destroyed by uber atziri.

Dont stand in red circle.

Damn, UI jewel already 16 ex ><

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SilverWF escribió:

Damn, UI jewel already 16 ex ><

I just bought one for 14. Price is kinda crazy, it goes up faster than you can save.

MB you shouldnt waste currency on meaningless 6link.

I expect abyss gear and jewels prices going up aswell as they remove abyss from memories.

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DwaneDibbley escribió:

MB you shouldnt waste currency on meaningless 6link.

That 2 ex doesn't makes sense, really...

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Well, my DPS now is close to 700k with SA or 800k for RoA, total budged equals to 8-10 ex.
To push it more I need to invest insane amount of currency, like ~2ex per jewel (double T1 phys dmg, t1 life, 4th with blind, or lightning dmg, or something else) and this build has a lot of abyss jewels - 20+ ex total on jewels only.
Also, I need amulet with life, INT, resists, added phys, elem dmg, non-chaos to chaos. Not even sure, how much it would cost, 10ex and more obviously.
And Unnatural Instinct - 15+ ex

So, I've loaded my character to POB, created that GODLY rolled jewels and set it to sockets, changed tree for UI and added it, changed all gems to lvl 20/20, added nodes to 96 lvl (coz now I'm 89), basically - cheesed in all possible ways.
And my shaper DPS becomes 2,5kk.
Most impact on DPS was from changing jewels, then - from adding UI. My lvl (and few extra nodes) also as gem lvls has pretty minimal impact.
For 50+ ex price.

Feel myself disappointed.

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SilverWF escribió:

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DwaneDibbley escribió:

MB you shouldnt waste currency on meaningless 6link.

That 2 ex doesn't makes sense, really...

--------
Well, my DPS now is close to 700k with SA or 800k for RoA, total budged equals to 8-10 ex.
To push it more I need to invest insane amount of currency, like ~2ex per jewel (double T1 phys dmg, t1 life, 4th with blind, or lightning dmg, or something else) and this build has a lot of abyss jewels - 20+ ex total on jewels only.
Also, I need amulet with life, INT, resists, added phys, elem dmg, non-chaos to chaos. Not even sure, how much it would cost, 10ex and more obviously.
And Unnatural Instinct - 15+ ex

So, I've loaded my character to POB, created that GODLY rolled jewels and set it to sockets, changed tree for UI and added it, changed all gems to lvl 20/20, added nodes to 96 lvl (coz now I'm 89), basically - cheesed in all possible ways.
And my shaper DPS becomes 2,5kk.
Most impact on DPS was from changing jewels, then - from adding UI. My lvl (and few extra nodes) also as gem lvls has pretty minimal impact.
For 50+ ex price.

Feel myself disappointed.

https://pastebin.com/dXKX8NEw

Here is your character with zero changes in jewels - a cheap, self crafted amulet that you can alt-spam yourself. (just buy an elder amulet with ilevel 81+ and altspam till you get your modifier, regal (if the regal is good, keep it, otherwise you can try to annul it; up to you) and finished out with multimodding)

I switched some crafted enchants on your existing gear around - as well as optimized your tree and set up your Character in PoB properly.

I put the proper lab enchant on your boots (not your helmet though(!) since that can be hard to get) and 30% corrupted your bow - you can alternativly just hillock it to 28% if you do not want to corrupt it.

I leveled up your gems as far as your stats allow - but never over lv20 so you can't complain about expensive corrupts there. :P (which should be the least of your worries - that happens kinda on its own.)

I was also almost able to balance your three resists. :/ I just missed Cold Resists by 1% :( But then again I did not want to change any gear besides the selfcrafted amulet.

Aaaand lo-and behold! we are at ~1Mio Shaper DPS.

The third might of the meek is a good idea! :) But if you take it make sure you actually take the crit-multi nodes. They are the nodes that make the Unnatural Instinct that good (and expensive) in the first place.

Another thing: before you spend 3 talent points pathing to a jewel node make sure you have a jewel that is worth that investment. There are still options open on your talenttree that you can take and do more for you then your current jewels offer.

Cheers o/

blargh forum

thx will check