[3.8] A CI/LL Tri-Curse Herald of Agony Occultist [Deathless Uber Elder, League Starter]

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DamageIncorporated escribió:

Hey

Why not a source of lightning damage, and use EE? The Crawler is physical, chaos and FIRE....if we do lightning damage, it's fire damage will be buffed.

I'v spent some time examining the build trying to figure out a reason NOT to take it. Can't find it. It's one passive. I think we can spare it.

Picked up:

PS: REALLY strong build. I've played many, this is up there. Little word of advise on Rain of Arrows: don't look for quality Vaal Rain of Arrows. Look for one with zero or close to zero quality. It has plenty of AOE without it, and in fact more AOE on it is a bad thing when it comes to single target. More spread= less arrows hitting which means worse Virulence stacking speed.

Indeed, I've been thinking of it! I haven't been using Added Fire Damage for that long, I used to use Empower instead, that's why I haven't yet added it to the build. But it's a really nice idea and a huge dps boost for the Crawler if we can find a way to add lightning or cold damage to our attacks.

The most simple solution would be to get a Searching Eye jewel with ES and added lightning/cold damage to attacks, or to get the added damage on a ring/amulet. If you can get it on a ring/amu, it's perfect; if you can't, it takes up a jewel socket, but even then it would definitely be worth it damage-wise: I ran some numbers, and a Ghastly Eye jewel with perfect attack speed gives an increase of 2.3% dps, and a Searching Eye jewel with lightning/cold damage and EE gives an increase of 12.7%! So it's definitely worth, and it's a good idea, I will add it to the guide.

Thank you for the suggestion! :)


Edit: Done! I updated the PoB with EE. I was lucky and already had added lightning damage on my amulet :)

Hey Vatinas!

I noticed that you changed your jewels from "extra physical damage to minions" to "extra attack speed for minions". Do you think it's better to get more attack speed? Or is it just to test?

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littlezoe escribió:

Hey Vatinas!

I noticed that you changed your jewels from "extra physical damage to minions" to "extra attack speed for minions". Do you think it's better to get more attack speed? Or is it just to test?

In a perfect world, you want both. For example:


Note you want flat physical, not increased damage. The Agony Crawler already gets a metric ass ton of MORE damage with Virulence. But ya, attack speed is scrumptious too.

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DamageIncorporated escribió:

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littlezoe escribió:

Hey Vatinas!

I noticed that you changed your jewels from "extra physical damage to minions" to "extra attack speed for minions". Do you think it's better to get more attack speed? Or is it just to test?

In a perfect world, you want both. For example:

Note you want flat physical, not increased damage. The Agony Crawler already gets a metric ass ton of MORE damage with Virulence. But ya, attack speed is scrumptious too.

So if I can't get both, then is flat physical or attack speed the better choice?

flat phys

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littlezoe escribió:

So if I can't get both, then is flat physical or attack speed the better choice?

Actually, I had been playing with flat phys because I already had such jewels, but now that PoB allows us to check the Crawler's damage, it seems that attack speed jewels grant more damage than flat phys. Feel free to mess around in PoB by crafting attack speed jewels as well as flat phys jewels to compare the damage multiplier :)

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Vatinas escribió:

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littlezoe escribió:

So if I can't get both, then is flat physical or attack speed the better choice?

Actually, I had been playing with flat phys because I already had such jewels, but now that PoB allows us to check the Crawler's damage, it seems that attack speed jewels grant more damage than flat phys. Feel free to mess around in PoB by crafting attack speed jewels as well as flat phys jewels to compare the damage multiplier :)

Actually I still have some trouble with PoB. It's hard to understand some parts of it for me, so I've mostly been avoiding it, except for the passive tree. It reminds me of EVE Online (spreadsheet simulator :P).

But thank you for the answer. I currently have flat phys jewels, but will try attack speed if the damage of the Crawler seems low. Right now it's pretty high though.

Gonna try this build in new league. Looks interesting to me.

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littlezoe escribió:

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Vatinas escribió:

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littlezoe escribió:

So if I can't get both, then is flat physical or attack speed the better choice?

Actually, I had been playing with flat phys because I already had such jewels, but now that PoB allows us to check the Crawler's damage, it seems that attack speed jewels grant more damage than flat phys. Feel free to mess around in PoB by crafting attack speed jewels as well as flat phys jewels to compare the damage multiplier :)

Actually I still have some trouble with PoB. It's hard to understand some parts of it for me, so I've mostly been avoiding it, except for the passive tree. It reminds me of EVE Online (spreadsheet simulator :P).

But thank you for the answer. I currently have flat phys jewels, but will try attack speed if the damage of the Crawler seems low. Right now it's pretty high though.

Hey guys,

to further expand on what Vatinas said, everything could have been calculated "by hand", even without PoB, to determine what is the best mod for jewels.

I put everything under spoiler if you can not stand mathematics !



So, without any other modifiers on stuff or passive tree, the order is :

% increased attack speed > % increased minion damage > added physical damage



Also, for Quality of Life, I also recommend some "minions have 6-10% increased movement speed", as it will bring a huge increase. Indeed, only one node in the passive tree, "Redemption", gives increased minion movement speed, and then quality on the Herald of Agony gem gives some as well (1% per 1% quality)



To Vatinas and Damageincorporated, about "Elemental Equilibrium" :
yes, it is really a good idea to take this node if you can happen to get some added lightning or cold damage to your bow attacks, to further enhance the "Added Fire damage" support gem.

MOREOVER, if you happen to get specifically "Cold" damage to your bow attacks, do not forget that then, "Physical To Lightning" support gem can become a very attractive support for the Crawler.

First, it adds "Supported Skills gain 29% of Physical Damage as Extra Lightning Damage", which is equivalent to 29% MORE damage, and then, if you have Elemental Equilibrium, the "Supported Skills have 50% of Physical Damage Converted to Lightning Damage" is increased in damage by the lessened reduction of 50% of the monsters' lightning resistance, which turns virtually as another 0.5 x 0.5 = 25% MORE damage.

So, in total, "Physical to Lightning" can become a (25 + 29) = 54% MORE damage gem, which is superior to "Minion Damage" or "Damage on Full Life" support gems, but only if you can manage to add only cold damage to your attacks.
Up to you !


That's it for now, thanks for reading and as always, hope it helps !

I second everything Pakito said! As for Phys to Lightning, it's really good if you can get added cold to your attacks; ultimately, it's up to personal preference, since the damage is really close to that of Damage of full life/Minion Damage.

Pakito's theorycrafting is really good, I highly recommend reading it if you can! It's definitely worth the time.