[3.2] CI ST/BF HoWA, still ass kicking! Shaper/Guardian/Uber/Elder etc



FAQ (on choices):
Spoiler
Why Scion?
Because there isn't much to gain from going pure Raider or Pathfinder.
- 2 uses of flasks are enough to down even end game bosses, so gain from Pathfinder isn't noticeable, and Raider has pretty much only slightly more powerful Frenzy charges going for her. Scion can not only generate charges as easily as Raider, but also gets constant Onslaught effect, giving you a free flask slot. We are already Shock and Ignite immune with Cyclopean Coil, and since we don't need to bring a Silver flask (but Raider might want to), we are pretty much even.
- The biggest benefit of going Scion, however, is flexibility in your sub-ascendancy choices. You can easily get Stun Immunity from Occultist or Juggernaut, which allows us to use Arakaali Pantheon for up to 7k ES/s of leech on a 10k ES character!

Why you didn't take Frenzy charges?
I didn't take those in the pastebins/tree as they are for level 90 character, and I believe other nodes are much more beneficial for a well balanced character. After level 90, if you want to push your levels, feel free to take them.
My main issue is that there are other nodes that give you similar dps increase but don't require you to be built up first. Even since generating charges against single target is still quick, that first few seconds when you don't have Onslaught are noticeable, and going from 0->3 takes less time then 0->5.

Why CI?
There was a switch in 3.0 from CI HoWA to life/hybrid based, most notably with Soul Tether. But, that was only because instant leech still worked with life. In 3.1 and beyond, this isn't the case, so going Hybrid with barely 5k life and 2.5k ES isn't that great when you can simply go with 7-10k ES and enjoy not only higher eHP pool, but also greater leech potential (50% of 5k is 2.5k leeched per second, 50% of 8.5k is 4.25k leeched per second).

Crit vs Non-Crit?
In all honesty, for an average player they work pretty much the same and achieve almost exact same ES/DPS numbers. I have tried taking numerous different paths around the tree and it is really hard to justify going Crit over non-Crit. The only way for Crit version to reliably outperform non-crit would be high bugdet Blade Flurry Crit with Abyssus and enough ES on other pieces to still reach over 8-9k ES. Is it possible? Yes, and a friend of mine was using such build in Breach league.

Blade Flurry vs Spectral Throw?
BF is obviously a lot better for single target damage and bosskilling. Personally, I chose ST since I pretty much never make builds for characters with decent clearspeed, and wanted to join Vault/Breach farming meta for once. In general, this guide written assuming you are following ST version, so keep this in mind.
I hope you, as a reader, have enough experience to know which parts do apply to BF version and which ones don't.
I've tried Blade Flurry recently (with slight tree respec), but I found that clearspeed was slower, and single target dps vs bosses (where you can position yourself for max number of ST hits and put your totems down) was pretty much similar to ST. Only rares in maps were dying a bit faster, but that's about it. Without ST Deceleration enchant, Blade Flurry is much cheaper and has superior single target dps (and can get higher ES since you can swap helmet more easily), but once you get it, ST might actually be a better end game choice.

Do we take Point Blank?
It all depends on what you want from your character and how much damage you currently do.
It is worth taking if you can already one-two shot packs of trash with -50% damage. If you struggle to take out packs at distance, taking PB might not be the best idea.
However, PB does help with single target damage in Slower Projectiles setup, with or without Deceleration enchant. In case of Deceleration enchant, it has been estimated as a 17% single target dps increase. Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/6zglgz/just_in_case_you_were_wondering_st_can_hit_kuduku/dmvqp1f/
There might be fights when you don't want to be anywhere near a boss, or your pack clearing isn't the best, or you farm/chain challenging content like Uber Atziri - in this case, you might be beter off without Point Blank, as single target dps increase isn't as big as advertised 50%, but your long range dps will be suffering.
It is up to you as a player to choose if you want this keystone or not.


FAQ (troubleshooting):
Spoiler
Can't get my Strength higher then Dex!
We do take big Strength nodes, but sometimes it might not be enough if your gear has some Dexterity on it. It isn't a make or break, but if you can get almost free Ignite immunity, you should go for it. Usually, a smaller discrepancy can be fixed by pathing with Str/Int instead of Int/Int node between "Pain Attunement" and "Written in Blood" area. In case of bigger difference, you could connect Ranger portion of the tree with the Shadow area using nearby +10 strength node, and removing dexterity node coming out of Ranger starting point, to keep the same amount of points spent.
You can also just get a pair of HoWAs with less %increased Dexterity.

I keep dying, why?
Post your gear, tree, pastebin, or better yet, make your character public and ask in the thread. Try using Stibnite flask, Jade flask, "Blind on Hit" Abyssal Jewel, and try to describe what are you dying to (specific boss, mapping in general). I need to know what your character looks like and what is she wearing to be able to help, some description would also help me help you.

My dps is crap!
You can try using Atziri's Promise, other then that, there are only 2 other ways to scale damage: gear/jewels and gem levels. Gem levels are terribly important to maximize damage, and can make a big difference. Unfortunately, unless you buy them, you will have to level them up a bit before your damage goes up. Quality on your gems is also important, so if you cannot afford gems with quality, you will have to level them twice.
Also, post your gear/pastebin/make your profile public. This will make it easier to identify problems.


Pros and Cons:
Spoiler

+ CHEAP: Even with 1ex budget you get the same defensive mechanics and eHP pool as much better geared and expensive life builds. With a 4-5ex budget and 19/0 gems, I had 8.2k ES and 43k GMP hideout tooltip dps. Shaper Guardians were killed when I had only 27k GMP dps and 6.7k ES (crap gear and unoptimized tree).
+ FAST: It's Spectral Throw after all... and even Blade Flurry is okish for mapping if you have a lot of attack speed.
+ STRONG: With some more spending and leveling gems, it's relatively easy to get 10+k ES and 65+k GMP hideout tooltip dps on a 25-30ex budget.
+ FLEXIBLE: Since the passive tree stretches far, you have plenty of options to choose from:
defensive nodes, offensive and even good resistance nodes (with "free" jewel socket). You can also choose between defensive/offensive aura, and have similar choice to make when it comes to totems.
+ DURABLE: I've been playing since before the Breach league and this is my first build on which dying is so hard, I leveled 91->93 running Guardian maps almost exclusively. Yes, I died a couple times to stupid shit and retardation (like Ghosted Minotaur, 2 Volatiles hitting me while I was picking up loot, standing too close to Phoenix's Discharge on extra AoE map), but instead of forcing myself to level in lower tiers, Exp came naturally while farming high tiers.
I guess if you take more defensive tree, this build could be HC viable.

- Not a league starter: People need to drop, bless and sell you weapons, unless you are one of the fast guys who's name features in "XXXX is the first character to enter Esh's Domain!", you won't be able to build this character in first few days.
- Low gear supply on the market: Most lootfilter creators count ES gear as worse tier then last league, so all the more strict users aren't picking it up. ES being off-meta means that people aren't conditioned to pick up and sell ES gear, so items that match your resistance needs might be rare. Prices are also all over the place, when 2 pairs of boots with similar stats can cost 20 or 70 Chaos - and then you pray the first guy isn't afk.
- Not a greatest Lab runner: No regen whatsoever, so you will be carried by Vaal Discipline(s). Izaro or Argus are a non-issue, traps are.
- Difficult to sacrifice defensive for offensive power: Not because it wouldn't work, but because you get your damage from same source as your ES. It's just impossible to make 5-6k ES HoWA on high budget with 150+k tooltip GMP damage. Your dps will be lower then glass cannon life based Ele ST, but your ES will always be high. Not really a con, but I wanted to point it out.


Videos (deathless unless stated otherwise):
Spoiler
Budget: 30-35ex (bought new chest, sold old one), Gems: 20/20 gems, few 21/20:
All 4 Guardians + Shaper run, map mods are shown, altogether pretty good run excluding 1 stupid (avoidable) death.

Budget: 27ex (bought Clarity Watcher's and new rare jewel), Gems: 19/20 gems:
Chayula
Shaper run (one death due to overconfidence)
Chimera with Vulnerability and Monster Elemental res.

Budget: Under 9ex (bought new rings, amulet and boots), Gems: 18/20 and 19/20:
Shaper run

Budget: 6ex, Gems: 15/20 and 16/20:
Minotaur - with 2 damage mods
Phoenix - using GMP, was tired and didn't want to lose exp. Yes, this build can exp in T16 if you're careful


Gear:
Spoiler
On the left side are my first items I used in Phoenix/Minotaur videos, which cost roughly 5-6 ex. On the right is my more up do date equip.


Bread and butter of the build, with 2 of them we get attack speed and damage bonus.

Anything with resistances and decent ES. Intelligence is also great if you can afford it or have luck Essence crafting.
If you cannot afford one with Spectral Throw enchantment and decent ES, get one with shitty ES and use Essences of Woe (Shrieking are great since you save Scours on reroll and they're still cheap) until there is a free prefix, just craft %increased ES and voila! You got yourself a 100-160 ES helmet with enchantment, even if base helmet has next to no ES. This is what I done, and my helmet piece cost me under 10 Chaos total (lucky hit tbh).

Best in slot, period. These gloves give my character equal stats as mirror tier gloves with 241 ES, 50 Intelligence, 15% attack speed and 500 accuracy. Check for yourself: https://imgur.com/DETk43K
On top of great dps and ES, they provide you with 2 additional ways of scaling defenses: Evasion (easy 20k just with Jade flask) and Strength (which also boost your dps, see my belt choice).

Anything with high ES, Intelligence and resistances.

Very cheap in Abyss, this is what I'm personally using. Like boots, you want resists/Int/high ES.

Astramentis is a great starter amulet. If you have the currency, use Shaped amulet with "increased attributes" and "inreased damage per 15 Intelligence", but beware as those are more expensive (I got lucky with mine, which cost me only 1ex but increased my dps by 10%).

Like all rares, you want resists/Int/ES. Added Lightning damage or Weapon Elemental Damage is great if you can afford it. Most funny thing is, none of these rings cost more then 15c.

Very hard to beat this belt in terms of ES/Damage. No resistances, sadly, but you can cap your res without it - it will be slightly more expensive, but on the other hand, buying a Crystal with Essence crafted Intelligence, WED and good resists would cost you multiple exalts anyway.
Since we use Shaper's Touch, getting +30 Strength nodes on the tree is a good idea (they are on par with 7% increased ES, while usual ES nodes provide 6%). Push your strength a little higher then Dex, and you get free Ignite immunity.
BiS would be some sick Elder belt with %Attributes, WED, ES and resistances, but your average Joe won't be able to afford that.

Flasks:

- Sulphur flask is a good dps increase, and costs next to nothing. +Maximum charges or reduced charges used are the best mods, allowing you to use the flask up to 4 times.
- Jade flask synergizes greatly with this build, adding around 13-16k Evasion on its own to your build, which is pretty great for a single flask. That's around 50% chance to evade attacks.
- Stibnite is another great defensive flask. Brought to you by ProjectPT https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQCxpugW9sM. You also want to go for +maximum charges or reduced charges used.
- The Wise Oak is a great offensive flask, and also greatly helps with Elemental Weakness maps, since overcapping res is hard for this build.
- Vessel of Vinktar is the best offensive flask you can have. Penetration helps vs elemental resist map mods, Equilibrium, tough rares and end game bosses. Additionally, Shocks for 10% increased damage. It's also quite cheap, I got mine for around 8c.
- If you prefer damage instead of defenses, use Atziri's Promise instead of Stibnite.

Jewels:

We use a total of 3-4 Fertile Minds (with standard tree) and 1 Brute Force Solution. There in no excuse for getting anything less then 24 Intelligence rolls, since they are so cheap at the moment. I spent 1c, 1c, 3c, 4c and 6c for these jewels, all with 24 Int.
The rest is up to you, and again, I haven't spend more then 15 chaos on a single rare jewel. If you want to splash out, you can get jewels with much more powerful stats. Make sure to get one Abyss jewel with "% blind on hit" property, it is amazing vs bosses and even triggers often versus trash.

The only semi-expensive jewel is Watcher's Eye with "Energy Shield gained on hit", which makes you immortal in maps, and also helps a ton versus single targets, but is entirely optional.
For the extra wealthy, there Watcher's Eye with "%Mana as extra ES" mod which adds almost 2k ES to my 8.2k pool (24% increase).


Ascendancy and Pantheon:
Spoiler
Raider: With Blood Rage, we get constant sustain of charges vs trash, but this keeps them full vs bosses, which is more important. It also means we can completely skip Silver flask, unlike true Raider, who has to use a flask or gets it only on kill (if they take unpopular path that is, since everyone is still preferring the other option).
Occultist or Juggernaut: This allows us to use Arakaali Pantheon, which coupled with Blood Rage gives us great ES sustain. Both options are great, but imho, Juggernaut might be better due to Endurance charge generation, which can render us immune to physical damage.
Path of Ranger or Path of Witch: Both have their merits, pathing out of Ranger gives you slightly more dps but a bit less flexibility on the tree.

Major God Power:
Arakaali. Immortal Call + Blood Rage helps greatly with ES leech, giving you this old VP feeling.
Minor God Power:
I chose Garukhan for the additional boost to Evasion. Upgraded Gruthkul is also a decent choice.


Bandits, Leveling and Passive tree:
Spoiler
Bandits:
Kill all.

Leveling:
Spoiler
Gems:
You can level with Spectral Throw, but try to get some Elreon rings as sustaining mana is hard. Pick up/upgrade and use mana pots as you level.
Gems to pick up:
- Mud Flats (A1): Decoy Totem (optional, depends if you want a Decoy Totem in your end-game setup), Ancestral Protector.
- Brutus (A1): Added Cold, Added Lightning, Lesser Multiple Projectiles and Spectral Throw in a 4L (add Onslaught support if you can sustain the mana costs).
- Chamber of Sins (A2): Herald of Ice and Herald of Thunder.
- The Weaver/Bandits (A2): Elemental Damage with Attacks, Concentrated Effect, Blood Rage, Damage on Full Life and Elemental Focus.
Every few levels, check if Elemental Damage and Elemental Focus are providing you with more dps then Added Cold and Added Lightning, and replace the gems according to what gives you the best dps. You won't have the damage to outleech Blood Rage yet, so just level it but don't use yet.
- Crematorium (A3): Wrath and any dps curse (Elemental Weakness/Conductivity/Projectile Weakness). Stop using both Heralds.
- General Gravicius (A3): Blade Flurry and Ancestral Warchief if you gonna be using BF in end-game. Use Spectral Throw/Blade Flurry/Lesser Multiple Projectiles and 3 of the best dps gems (most likely Ele Damage, Ele Focus and Added Lightning/Damage on Full Life) in your Tabula Rasa. Use Spectral for general clear/leveling and Blade Flurry for tougher rares/bosses.
- Library Quest: It's important to do this quest if you don't have other characters that you can transfer gems from. Get Lightning Penetration from your reward and level it in off-hand, keep your current 2x5L setup as it is. Get all necessary gems like Elemental Focus, Ancestral Protector, Immortal Call if you haven't already. Every few levels, check if Elemental Focus is providing you with more dps then Added Lightining, and replace it when it does.
- Dried Lake (A4): Lightning Golem.
- Kaom and Daresso (A4): Get Greater Multiple Projectiles and drop Lesser Multiple Projectiles. Get Cast When Damage Taken and Immortal Call from vendor. If you want to use Blade Flurry in the end game, pick up Increased AoE as well.
- Any missing gems can be bought in act 3 from Siosa (where you can also get Lightning Penetration 3 acts earlier) or in acts 6-10 from Lilly.

Items:
I won't be listing obvious meta leveling gear like Tabula or Goldrim, but more build specific uniques:
Level 1: Darkness Enthroned.
Level 20: Astramentis. Great stat boost.
Level 22: 2x Hand of Thought and Motion.
Level 30: Thief's Torment. OP life/mana sustain.
Level 39: Doedre's Scorn. Superb ES and damage.
Level 41: Brinerot Whalers. Good movement speed, ES and damage.
Level 44: Ascent from Flesh. Good ES and resists.
Level 53: Rainbowstride. Good movement speed, ES and resists.

Tree:

Put Fertile Mind jewels to the right of Shadow area and between Shadow/Ranger. Use other sockets for rare jewels. You can skip movement speed nodes, or use them and respec out of them later. Life nodes will be removed when you transition into CI.

Your next points and Fertile Mind jewel go into this area - you want to get to those leech nodes quickly. Vaal Pact will be taken later, but when you are leveling, the benefit is rather small. Take it after your tooltip dps is over 5k.

Next, you will want to go and take Elemental Overload, which will be a big boost in damage. After that, go into Templar area to grab resistances and socket Brute Force Solution in the jewel socket there. I didn't take Light of Divinity on this screenshot, but you should take it as well.

When your ES is 1.5x times higher then Life (1.5k life and 2.5k ES for example), get Ghost Reaver, and if you have more then 4k ES, take CI and unspec all unnecessary life nodes. You can keep Written in Blood if your ES pool is still low.

Passive tree:
Spoiler

If you need more resistances, take nodes marked as Green.
If you need more ES, take nodes marked as Blue.
To have enough points for the above choices, you can drop nodes marked in red circles.
In 3.2 after ascendancy changes, it is highly recommend to skip points taken in big red circle and put them into ES nodes by Witch start.

If using Blade Flurry, you can drop Fury Bolts and pick Crackling Speed or one of the Frenzy Charges.

Finally, if you are using a Shaped belt instead of Cylopean Coil, you might want to drop Strength nodes in favour of other ES nodes. Check in Path of Building if that change is beneficial for your character.

Poe.planner link


Gems:
Spoiler
Main Skills:
Spectral Throw + Elemental Damage + Damage on Full Life + Elemental Focus + Slower Projectiles + Lightning Penetration
Swap Slower Projectiles with Greater Multiple Projectiles for clear.

Blade Flurry + Elemental Damage + Damage on Full Life + Elemental Focus + Concentrated Effect + Lightning Penetration
Swap Concentrated Effect with Increased Area of Effect for clear.

Auras + Curses:
Discipline
Adds ES, nothing more to say here.

Wrath / Grace
Best dps increase per mana % reserved. However, since we do get a ton of flat lightning damage, Wrath increases dps by only as much as 15-20%. If you use Grace instead, you will be rocking 17k Evasion (53% chance to evade), and with flasks popped, go up to 32-40k (or around 65-70% evade chance), which is HUGE when coupled with Blind. The choice is yours.

Conductivity / Elemental Weakness / Projectile Weakness
All provide similar dps increase. I haven't tested PW curse myself, it shows up as best dps boost, but I'm unsure of how Knockback works for general clear - it could be a net gain or loss. I'll try it one day.

Buffs and debuffs:
Blood Rage
Good attack speed bonus and constant Frenzy charges when mapping. Socket it in your claws so that you can weapon swap and easily turn off the debuff when not needed.

Vaal Haste
Linked with Increased Duration, this gives you a solid dps burst and slightly increases your clearspeed through extra attack speed for Whirling Blades.

Immortal Call
Use it with Increased Duration if you have spare sockets, this will greatly help vs bursts of damage. If you pick Juggernaut, you might want to level this up a bit to get better physical mitigation. Cast when Damage Taken + Immortal Call + Curse + Vortex is a great combo that saves you sockets (you don't have to use another CwDT gem to proc your Curse/Vortex) at the cost of slightly reduced Immortal Call duration.

Vortex
20% slow on bosses at the cost of 1 gem. Have it in your CwDT setup and you're good to go.

Totem:
Ancestral Protector
20% dps boost, you can link it with Culling Strike Support and Blind as a utility, or with Elemental Damage + Elemental Focus + Ruthless and use 2 of these bad boys to increase your single target dps - this would increase total single target dps of my current character by 500k vs trash or 300k to Shaper/Guardians.

Decoy Totem
Terribly underrated, works wonders if you want a defensive boost. Look at this 4k life wander being carried on Chimera map thanks to his Decoy (and old Vaal Pact, but look how Decoy works before you judge it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPqKZbw6X-4
Or, take another look at this video (he died for this /s): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQCxpugW9sM
Only take it if you prefer more defensive approach.

Movement:
Whirling Blades + Faster Attacks + Fortify
A golden standard for claw users, this gives you decent amount of mobility. I prefer Shield Charge as a movement skill, but since ES boots with movement speed are going to be a lot more expensive, and second claw is a better option then the shield, we are left with Whirling Blades.


Enchantments:
Spoiler
Helmet:
Projectile deceleration is the best option for single target damage, allowing you to hit enemy up to 5 times with good positioninig - without it, maximum of 3 is achievable, so this is more then 50% dps increase if your positioning is spot on.

Projectile speed is amazing for clearspeed, and should be your number 1 pick if you don't intend to do end game bosses.

Projectile damage is the middle ground between the two, but not worth sinking currency into.

Blade Flurry doesn't have many good enchantments, so just go with the damage one.

Boots:
Stun avoidance if you are paranoid about it.

Other then that, you can use Added Lightning or Penetration for bosses, or Attack Speed for general clear. With so much penetration we already have, Added Lightning might be a better, and also a lot cheaper option.

Gloves:
I know nothing about glove enchants, they aren't worth the hassle in general.


PoB:
Spoiler
3.2:
My character with new tree and Ascendancy: https://pastebin.com/L3G5YH68
10.3k ES, up to 20k Evasion, 464k Shaper dps (no Point Blank). Stun immune, almost constant uptime on Immortal Call, can get up to 7.1k ES leech per second!

3.1:
Shit tier gear, under 1ex (ST): https://pastebin.com/9DeVMMHU
Level 80, gems level 18/0, no Point Blank. Same amount of eHP as decently built life builds and good enough dps.
5.8k ES, 16k Evasion, 227k dps, 147k dps vs Shaper/Guardian.

My character (ST, "budgety" gear): https://pastebin.com/wLrGNqHZ
Level 90, gems level 19/0, no Point Blank.
8.2k ES, up to 20k Evasion, 504k dps, 331k vs Shaper/Guardians.

My character (ST, with Watcher's Clarity): https://pastebin.com/Rp56CdJR
Level 91, gems level 19/20, no Point Blank.
10.1k ES, up to 21k Evasion, 668k dps, 458k dps vs Shaper/Guardians.

My most up to date character (ST, with Watcher's Clarity):
https://pastebin.com/9jpGkTxs
Level 93, gems level 20/20 and few 21/20, no Point Blank.
10.7k ES, up to 21k Evasion, 752k dps, 516k dps vs Shaper/Guardians. Remove Trickery for Point Blank, and you can rock with 740k PoB dps, or sacrifice some dps for ES to get 11.5k ES with 435k Shaper dps (no Point Blank)
Total cost of my gear is around 30-35ex, which isn't a lot compared to life based builds with Abyssal uniques.

Gear based on what I have but better, most likely over 50ex+ budget (ST): https://pastebin.com/5hNawMPs
Level 96, gems level 20/20, Point Blank.
9.7k ES (11.3k with post nerf Clarity Watcher's Eye), 20k Evasion, 832k Shaper dps (555k without PB).

With GG mirror tier (aka Unchainedlive pastebins) gear (ST): https://pastebin.com/UPfiPG1k
Level 100, 21/20 gems, Point Blank.
14k ES, 1.66 million Shaper dps, 1.13k without Point Blank.
My build guides:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2180198

Taking a break from PoE, catch me up in Warframe: https://www.warframe.com/signup?referrerId=5b625847f2f2eb0ea0750322
Use above link for free booster when you sign up! :)
Editado por útlima vez por Bristoling en 6 abr. 2018 11:51:53
Reflotado por última vez en 22 jun. 2018 3:36:49
Leveling with this at the moment, curious as to why you wouldn't get Soul Raker and skip Vaal Pact, or try to squeeze in both? Soul Raker is insanely powerful (other than the physical damage part of the node).
I think I should specify in levelling section: when we have low dps when levelling (like 5k or lower), extra leech from VP isn't all that great. It's definately worth to have some but Vaal Pact doesn't add a lot survivability early on.
Soul Raker is a strong choice for crit verstion which I'll be adding soon once I optimize the tree for it, but for non-crit it's better to take nodes near VP.

Thanks for the comment and I'll update the guide when I'm back home.
My build guides:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2180198

Taking a break from PoE, catch me up in Warframe: https://www.warframe.com/signup?referrerId=5b625847f2f2eb0ea0750322
Use above link for free booster when you sign up! :)
I'd like to see a video of this in action. I'm mostly worried about how fast leeching is. In relation to that, how important is Vaal Pact? I also noticed you don't take Point Blank. Is there a reason for this? Also wondering if you actually use the Blood Rage I saw in PoB while mapping.
Looking forward to more info on the crit variant.
"
Exiled_Wanderer escribió:
I'd like to see a video of this in action. I'm mostly worried about how fast leeching is. In relation to that, how important is Vaal Pact? I also noticed you don't take Point Blank. Is there a reason for this? Also wondering if you actually use the Blood Rage I saw in PoB while mapping.
Looking forward to more info on the crit variant.
Added 2 videos to answer your questions :)
I use Blood Rage when mapping (and bossing, unless it expires and I forget about it), Vaal Pact is pretty important since we don't take Zealot's Oath anyway, and leeching is fine since we evade majority of attacks - and even more with Grace instead of Wrath.

Reason why I didn't take Point Blank is, when you attack a target that is a bit further away from you (see Minotaur video bossfight), your Spectral Throw hits the target around 4-5 times in total. Since that happens only at a distance of ST reversing, Point Blank would mean a dps loss since I believe that that distance is when you start losing the bonus and getting the damage penalty. It also reduces your mapping dps at high range, which probably won't matter with better gear when you 1-2 shot everything anyway, but does to me since my gear is kind of crap (and a lot more upgrades to buy down the line) and gems aren't 20/20 yet, which also makes a difference.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong about ST, it's just that I've seen this mentioned somewhere in one build guide long time ago, just don't remember which and if it's accurate, but it does make sense.
My build guides:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2180198

Taking a break from PoE, catch me up in Warframe: https://www.warframe.com/signup?referrerId=5b625847f2f2eb0ea0750322
Use above link for free booster when you sign up! :)
Editado por útlima vez por Bristoling en 11 ene. 2018 16:03:00
"
Bristoling escribió:
"
Exiled_Wanderer escribió:
I'd like to see a video of this in action. I'm mostly worried about how fast leeching is. In relation to that, how important is Vaal Pact? I also noticed you don't take Point Blank. Is there a reason for this? Also wondering if you actually use the Blood Rage I saw in PoB while mapping.
Looking forward to more info on the crit variant.
Added 2 videos to answer your questions :)
I use Blood Rage when mapping (and bossing, unless it expires and I forget about it), Vaal Pact is pretty important since we don't take Zealot's Oath anyway, and leeching is fine since we evade majority of attacks - and even more with Grace instead of Wrath.

Reason why I didn't take Point Blank is, when you attack a target that is a bit further away from you (see Minotaur video bossfight), your Spectral Throw hits the target around 4-5 times in total. Since that happens only at a distance of ST reversing, Point Blank would mean a dps loss since I believe that that distance is when you start losing the bonus and getting the damage penalty. It also reduces your mapping dps at high range, which probably won't matter with better gear when you 1-2 shot everything anyway, but does to me since my gear is kind of crap (and a lot more upgrades to buy down the line) and gems aren't 20/20 yet, which also makes a difference.

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong about ST, it's just that I've seen this mentioned somewhere in one build guide long time ago, just don't remember which and if it's accurate, but it does make sense.


Just wanted to respond to this, as a good friend of mine wrote up a fantastic guide knows as elebuzzsaw for Spectral Throw. He doesn't get Point Blank until very late game, right around level 92+ and once he's ready to sit around doing guardians/shaper. It is actually a dps gain though, but you have to obviously be close to bosses to make the best of it and it stacks with slower projectiles in a very gross way.

You tend to do so much damage at this point that even if the damage drops off during mapping, you still blow the map apart at around the same speed.

Also, this build has treated me amazingly and I absolutely love using two ancestral protectors on bosses, albeit completely necessary as things melt with very little investment.

Oh one last edit here: if you go with Point Blank, do NOT use the same helm enchant, get the damage enchant for ST instead.
Editado por útlima vez por AllMud55 en 13 ene. 2018 23:58:53
I've added a section to the FAQ on Point Blank. I had a look at elemental buzzsaw build guide (is this one you're referring to? https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1839087), didn't see a lot mentioned about PB specifically, but I did some more research (google is a good friend), and it turns out that Point Blank is roughtly a 17% more average damage increase even with deceleration enchantment against single target. I don't think 40% damage is that great by comparison, since your attacks can hit a boss only 2-3 times instead of 4-5, which is a big dps increase, even if we assume that 3 hits do get full point blank bonus (they won't but it's a 450% total damage if they did) versus calculated 17% more with 5 hits (5x117%=585% total damage).

Slower deceleration is also quite good for clear, when you can whirl to next pack and your projectiles will start slowly returning to you killing stragglers behind you. Without the projectile deceleration, you have to be a lot faster to get the same effect.

But, that's just what I think, I'm not terribly experienced with ST yet, and only go by damage calculations and experience/opinions of other ST build guides that came before this one.
I've changed my stance on Point Blank a little bit, and will try out out in maps.

Edit:
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Exiled_Wanderer escribió:
Looking forward to more info on the crit variant.
I was trying my best to come up with a Crit version that achieves similar-> better dps and ES then non-crit, but all things considering I don't think it is really worth it. Dps increase is really small and relies on your flask slot (Diamond) as well. The only way of making it work would be a Crit Blade Flurry Abyssus with good ES gear to reach 7k or more ES - Spectral Throw is better as non-crit.
My build guides:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2180198

Taking a break from PoE, catch me up in Warframe: https://www.warframe.com/signup?referrerId=5b625847f2f2eb0ea0750322
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Editado por útlima vez por Bristoling en 14 ene. 2018 10:24:59
I wish I'd seen this guide a week ago I've never played the scion before so I just copied a howa inquisitor/blade flurry build I played in harbinger league and slapped it onto the scion.

Going in blind I didn't really understand the scion ascendancy and what advantages it had so it's starting to look like I built a crappier inquisitor w/ +10% move spd (lol?). Holding off on respect until I have a 2nd HoWA & unlock uber lab so I can drop zealots oath and regen nodes.

I'm not sure if I should stick w/ blade flurry and grab +crit/multi nodes, the main advantage to scion seems to be getting the +projectile dmg.

Doing this on xbone so all the main gear is kinda pricey unless I get lucky. Besides getting the uniques it's basically ssf. Thanks for posting this guide I was at a loss on what to do next.
Spoiler
That was the correct build you linked, and if you check is build in general (I'll ask him myself, and double check his guide myself) he uses Point Blank because the build has so much damage output that the long range effects mean nothing in mapping, and if you switch over to slower projectiles and get in close you melt even the tankiest of enemies that much faster.

Spoiler
<a href="https://i.gyazo.com/aa972134938eec7af081540f61a021a6.png"></a>


Quick screenie of a short and sweet conversation on the subject of PB, as with slower projectiles and standing on a boss, well you never see the -50% part for sure as the ST barely goes anywhere. It's far more worth it to take it than to neglect it considering overall clear speed is unaffected once you're geared.
Editado por útlima vez por AllMud55 en 14 ene. 2018 21:26:21
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Shogun_Shotgun escribió:
I wish I'd seen this guide a week ago I've never played the scion before so I just copied a howa inquisitor/blade flurry build I played in harbinger league and slapped it onto the scion.

Going in blind I didn't really understand the scion ascendancy and what advantages it had so it's starting to look like I built a crappier inquisitor w/ +10% move spd (lol?). Holding off on respect until I have a 2nd HoWA & unlock uber lab so I can drop zealots oath and regen nodes.

I'm not sure if I should stick w/ blade flurry and grab +crit/multi nodes, the main advantage to scion seems to be getting the +projectile dmg.

Doing this on xbone so all the main gear is kinda pricey unless I get lucky. Besides getting the uniques it's basically ssf. Thanks for posting this guide I was at a loss on what to do next.
Spoiler
I found there is little to no difference between crit and non-crit, that's why I haven't added it yet. Could be that the crit tree I was looking at isn't optimized. Anyway, with BF you'll want to grab same nodes, that all boost your ES as well after socketing Inertias anyway, just drop Fury Bolts. Templar does work and there is a good build for it, called Titan, it's regenerating based, but has less dps - and I don't think it'll work as Scion.

It must be some kind of bug when linking from Xbox, since I cannot view your items at all. I heard trading there is a bit more difficult but hopefully you'll find some cheap and good pieces.

Regarding Point Blank, I will spec into it but I'm having trouble on what should I drop for it. So much to choose, everything lookes important :D
My build guides:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2180198

Taking a break from PoE, catch me up in Warframe: https://www.warframe.com/signup?referrerId=5b625847f2f2eb0ea0750322
Use above link for free booster when you sign up! :)

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