[DECEASED] Leech-based RF+Obliteration Slayer <ExtremelyCheap> All Content and HC viable.
" I am not the creator of this build but i do have some experience with it. Since your questions are easy to answer, i'll give it a try. 1: I would say Hidden potential is the core of this build. Without it you loose about 25-30 % of your damage. Rare items dont have the damage increases you need here. 2: 2 Obliteration wands are all you need for mapping. The explosions are damage overkill which trigger Endless Hunger for some extra leeching. Its funny but the bigger the packs the better your survivability. You dont need block, regen or EE. Ofc against bosses you need to switch weapons, but again the more leech the better means the more damage the better. 3: What spell do you think of? Do you want to run Ele reflect maps and leech? If yes, your choices are quite limited beside Dark Pact. Hopefully Dark Pact wont see a nerf, they nerfed more than enough in this league. |
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WOW
This build got me excited like no other build before. What excites me the most is that this actually is a build one can craft and advance on his own improving it over time - unlike other builds where one just buys the BiS items and is basically done. Thanks for sharing this little master piece. When Chuck Norris plays PoE masters do his missions Editado por útlima vez por AdFinitum en 2 nov. 2017 20:27:49
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Thank you very much for this build. I'm really looking forward to playing it in the 10 day events. However, this:
" I don't understand how you use his rage either. Could anyone explain that? Cheers! |
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" I see, Thanks. I have been looking for a good wand crazy. I have found one, trying to craft another. I have been skipping boss fights for the most part. I am liking this build, good clear speed, on bad maps I simply use DP. Any advice if I want to turn this into a uber lab farmer? PS: some of those gems are there for leveling. ■► It's a business. You won't get the full experience.
■► Yes, this is an addiction. This is a Slot Machine. I am addicted. ■► You won't be rewarded. There is no reward. |
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" You really don't /have/ to use flasks on each pack, but I do it because you kill fast enough to keep your flasks recharged, so it just makes everything run faster. You can do uberlab with all keys if you're good at it. As I showed you, I'm terrible with lab layouts, so I don't bother with this. Similarly, I'm not very good at racing, so I can't tell you how great it'd be in a 10 day event. I suspect it to be good, but I'm not sure about the price/availability of items in a 10 day event? You'd have to wait for someone with more knowledge on the topic to respond. " Actually, I got a retch belt in the start of the league because I thought it'd work well thematically, turns out it doesn't. I read A LOT and tested myself to understand how the retch works, long story short, it doesn't give you much damage because of the damage to life proportion, the retch is only worth getting in vaal pact slayer builds. Long answer:
Spoiler
I'll try to keep this as short as possible. When you're not a slayer, leech stops when you hit full life, so no matter how much damage you deal, you'll only deal damage equal to your missing hp (and deal little damage with the retch because of this). When not using vaal pact, your leech is gated by leech caps (refer to leech section of the guide). The way the retch works here is that it checks how much you're leeching, and then deals that much damage to 'tagged' monsters. In our case, we're constantly leeching at 43% of OUR max life per second. The 2nd part on the retch, is that it looks at 'tagged' monsters, these are the monsters you hit with attacks, spells, or anything. It then goes ahead and deals damage to every tagged monster equal to your leech. This works mechanically, because every time an obliteration explosion goes off, a monster would be tagged and they'd receive the damage over time, the problem is the damage. 43% of our max life, even in endgame, is less than 3k damage per second. A blue item will increase righteous fire and explosion damage by 25%, and since the amount of damage you deal is faaaar greater than your life pool, this ends out being so much more (think of your damage tooltips or forum titles with 200,000 damage builds, or even 1 million). Similarly, a Belt of the Deceiver would grant you far more damage with RF (but no damage gain on the explosions). Just for reference, this is the order in which maths take place: (((((Damage+Added Damage)*increased damage)*more damage)*monster damage taken or reduced)*resistance checks). Not only is the damage increase very small, but the item is ridiculously expensive. It is also worth noting that the DoT doesn't do anything for us, while increasing our damage is better because the harder we hit, the longer we leech for.
Also, jewels and flasks don't count towards Hidden Potential's increased damage. Maybe I should add this on the FAQ? " 1) Blood rage is just there to generate frenzy charges which give you a little bit of extra "more damage" for free lol, it helps the explosions go smoother and your RF deal a mit bore damage. This is why I keep it in the weapon swap with obliterations for clearing, but then swap out of it for bosses. 2) To be honest, I tried Uber Lab by myself way too late at around level 90 with a 6 link. By then, the boss was extremely easy as I could melt him down very quickly. I suspect you can do him at around 85 with a 5 link and two Apep wands, maybe less if you have good enough gear and are good at this game? I wouldn't know, I'm not good lol. Merc lab shouldn't be hard if you're running the right potions. Also, if you're not very good at dodging traps, just do it without RF so that traps become pointless. Most of the time, if people are having trouble with bosses, it's because they haven't dedicated enough into their single target weaponset/configuration. That, and the fact that you can't quite facetank bosses, you have to handle your lifeleech and sometimes walk off for a bit to regen before reengaging. 3) Uhm, if you're asking about level required to do different stuff, I honestly don't have a clue. I'm not a very good player, and this is the first time I've seen all of the content. I did a couple of them while being overleveled. Atziri is probably around 85 as well? I'd need someone else to say that, and shaper is definitely something you want to do at 95 or so. Guardians are probably somewhere between 90 and 92? " You really think the stuff is not cheap? I mean, blue items might be a bit more expensive right now since leagues are dead and nobody is playing, but early on you can find some cheap good blue items for 5c - 15c. Some even go for under 5c. Even the absolute best blues cost around 40-50c iirc. That's ridiculously cheap if you're minmaxing. Entry level gear should be worth very very little. Don't forget that you can get resistances on your tree or use purity of elements when you're starting out... I really don't see price being an issue. I took a look at your character, and yeah, that's one of the issues with using a blue chest instead of carcass. Clearing mobs shouldn't be too hard since warlord's mark will feed you 3 endurance charges constantly. That said, as Xirce said, leech is what keeps you alive. definitely run warlord's mark and enfeeble. The only other details I noticed on your characters were : You're missing a weaponswap for single target. Your tree looks fine, but you forgot to take the life nodes near templar, drop some subpar life nodes to grab those. You're missing a good amount of jewels, which means your damage might not be too good. You don't have to get 3 line jewels, just get Life + 1 damage mod and you'll be okay. You're missing a Ruby Flask, this negates a good amount of RF damage, which in turn makes you regen faaar more hp, making it all safer. Atziri flask isn't very good for us since there is no need for more leech, a sulphur flask would result in more damage which will make it safer through more leech plus some regen from consecrated ground. " You also don't think that's cheap? I mean, I guess the problem is you're comparing top end gear prices. You should take into account that you can start out with much cheaper blues and makeup the resists through purity of elements or resists on the tree. You don't need an enchant on your helm, much less an RF one, I'd recommend a Dark Pact enchant. If you're speaking about essence mod/craft, then yeah, that's around 30c, but you can do just fine without it and just use a blue helm (as I stated in the guide) until you can afford the essence. " 1) I'd advise not to, since this represents a whole lot of our damage as Xirce mentioned. My brother tried the build in standard with rares and it does work I guess, it just feels different since you can't rely on Righteous Fire to kill the mobs since you lose much generic damage from Hidden Potential. You'd have to commit to casting dark pact for every pack rather than walking past them. Chaos Damage essence crafts on jewellry becomes are a thing in that case, and buying good rare gear extends the build's budget. I think he also dropped various 3-node jewel sockets to go into northeast chaos damage on the tree. 2) Hell no! If I had 3 arms, you can be damn sure I'd use 3 obliterations! Okay, kidding aside, you /could/ play this build with ony 1 obliteration, but it'd kill your area coverage a good bit since you'd have a harder time proccing explosions, more so making them chain off of themselves. It'd end up feeling more like a traditional RF build, at which point I'm not sure if you're better off just playing other RF builds? RotP could work there I guess, I'm not sure if there are better options like a blue shield or another unique maybe. You'd have to explore that route yourself I think. Also, I'm pretty sure obliteration wands and Occultist's explosion nodes stack additively rather than multiplicatively, much like different sources of "chance to freeze" or so. 3) I tried a couple but didn't like them as much. That's the nice thing about this build, since it gets generic damage increases, you can replace the main spell to anything you'd like really - you do have to take account the problems that come up with other spells though. Vortex is a good option since it scales with area damage and isn't as bad vs reflect. Essence Drain is super good for boss killing and can definitely be an option if you don't mind the playstyle. Blade Vortex could also work out if you don't mind the way it plays. Any other spell like firestorm or bladefall could also be a thing, but you'd have to consider using hatred or poison and dealing with elemental reflect. Many other gems are also possible, but you'd have to build according for them. That said, I think Ice Vortex, probably with decay, is the best option if you had to use a different spell. " Hm, I guess I should add this to the FAQ. I only use it to have a little extra "more damage" from frenzy charges. Editado por útlima vez por lucksickle en 3 nov. 2017 5:10:27
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" You really don't /have/ to use flasks on each pack, but I do it because you kill fast enough to keep your flasks recharged, so it just makes everything run faster. You can do uberlab with all keys if you're good at it. As I showed you, I'm terrible with lab layouts, so I don't bother with this. Similarly, I'm not very good at racing, so I can't tell you how great it'd be in a 10 day event. I suspect it to be good, but I'm not sure about the price/availability of items in a 10 day event? You'd have to wait for someone with more knowledge on the topic to respond. " Actually, I got a retch belt in the start of the league because I thought it'd work well thematically, turns out it doesn't. I read A LOT and tested myself to understand how the retch works, long story short, it doesn't give you much damage because of the damage to life proportion, the retch is only worth getting in vaal pact slayer builds. Long answer:
Spoiler
I'll try to keep this as short as possible. When you're not a slayer, leech stops when you hit full life, so no matter how much damage you deal, you'll only deal damage equal to your missing hp (and deal little damage with the retch because of this). When not using vaal pact, your leech is gated by leech caps (refer to leech section of the guide). The way the retch works here is that it checks how much you're leeching, and then deals that much damage to 'tagged' monsters. In our case, we're constantly leeching at 43% of OUR max life per second. The 2nd part on the retch, is that it looks at 'tagged' monsters, these are the monsters you hit with attacks, spells, or anything. It then goes ahead and deals damage to every tagged monster equal to your leech. This works mechanically, because every time an obliteration explosion goes off, a monster would be tagged and they'd receive the damage over time, the problem is the damage. 43% of our max life, even in endgame, is less than 3k damage per second. A blue item will increase righteous fire and explosion damage by 25%, and since the amount of damage you deal is faaaar greater than your life pool, this ends out being so much more (think of your damage tooltips or forum titles with 200,000 damage builds, or even 1 million). Similarly, a Belt of the Deceiver would grant you far more damage with RF (but no damage gain on the explosions). Just for reference, this is the order in which maths take place: (((((Damage+Added Damage)*increased damage)*more damage)*monster damage taken or reduced)*resistance checks). Not only is the damage increase very small, but the item is ridiculously expensive. It is also worth noting that the DoT doesn't do anything for us, while increasing our damage is better because the harder we hit, the longer we leech for.
Also, jewels and flasks don't count towards Hidden Potential's increased damage. Maybe I should add this on the FAQ? " 1) Blood rage is just there to generate frenzy charges which give you a little bit of extra "more damage" for free lol, it helps the explosions go smoother and your RF deal a mit bore damage. This is why I keep it in the weapon swap with obliterations for clearing, but then swap out of it for bosses. 2) To be honest, I tried Uber Lab by myself way too late at around level 90 with a 6 link. By then, the boss was extremely easy as I could melt him down very quickly. I suspect you can do him at around 85 with a 5 link and two Apep wands, maybe less if you have good enough gear and are good at this game? I wouldn't know, I'm not good lol. Merc lab shouldn't be hard if you're running the right potions. Also, if you're not very good at dodging traps, just do it without RF so that traps become pointless. Most of the time, if people are having trouble with bosses, it's because they haven't dedicated enough into their single target weaponset/configuration. That, and the fact that you can't quite facetank bosses, you have to handle your lifeleech and sometimes walk off for a bit to regen before reengaging. 3) Uhm, if you're asking about level required to do different stuff, I honestly don't have a clue. I'm not a very good player, and this is the first time I've seen all of the content. I did a couple of them while being overleveled. Atziri is probably around 85 as well? I'd need someone else to say that, and shaper is definitely something you want to do at 95 or so. Guardians are probably somewhere between 90 and 92? " You really think the stuff is not cheap? I mean, blue items might be a bit more expensive right now since leagues are dead and nobody is playing, but early on you can find some cheap good blue items for 5c - 15c. Some even go for under 5c. Even the absolute best blues cost around 40-50c iirc. That's ridiculously cheap if you're minmaxing. Entry level gear should be worth very very little. Don't forget that you can get resistances on your tree or use purity of elements when you're starting out... I really don't see price being an issue. I took a look at your character, and yeah, the armour loss is one of the issues with using a blue chest instead of carcass. Clearing mobs shouldn't be too hard since warlord's mark will feed you 3 endurance charges constantly. That said, as Xirce said, leech is what keeps you alive. definitely run warlord's mark and enfeeble. The only other details I noticed on your character were : You're missing a weaponswap for single target. Your tree looks fine, but you forgot to take the life nodes near templar, drop some subpar life nodes to grab those. You're missing a good amount of jewels, which means your damage might not be too good. You don't have to get 3 line jewels, just get Life + 1 damage mod and you'll be okay. You're missing a Ruby Flask, this negates a good amount of RF damage, which in turn makes you regen faaar more hp, making it all safer. Atziri flask isn't very good for us since there is no need for more leech, a sulphur flask would result in more damage which will make it safer through more leech plus some regen from consecrated ground. " You also don't think that's cheap? I mean, I guess the problem is you're comparing top end gear prices. You should take into account that you can start out with much cheaper blues and makeup the resists through purity of elements or resists on the tree. You don't need an enchant on your helm, much less an RF one, I'd recommend a Dark Pact enchant. If you're speaking about essence mod/craft, then yeah, that's around 30c, but you can do just fine without it and just use a blue helm (as I stated in the guide) until you can afford the essence. " 1) I'd advise not to, since this represents a whole lot of our damage as Xirce mentioned. My brother tried the build in standard with rares and it does work I guess, it just feels different since you can't rely on Righteous Fire to kill the mobs since you lose much generic damage from Hidden Potential. You'd have to commit to casting dark pact for every pack rather than walking past them. Chaos Damage essence crafts on jewellry becomes a thing in that case, and buying good rare gear extends the build's budget. I think he also dropped various 3-node jewel sockets to go into northeast chaos damage on the tree. 2) Hell no! If I had 3 arms, you can be damn sure I'd use 3 obliterations! Okay, kidding aside, you /could/ play this build with ony 1 obliteration, but it'd kill your area coverage a good bit since you'd have a harder time proccing explosions, more so making them chain off of themselves. It'd end up feeling more like a traditional RF build, at which point I'm not sure if you're better off just playing other RF builds? RotP could work there I guess, I'm not sure if there are better options like a blue shield or another unique maybe. You'd have to explore that route yourself I think. Also, I'm pretty sure obliteration wands and Occultist's explosion nodes stack additively rather than multiplicatively, much like different sources of "chance to freeze" or so. 3) I tried a couple but didn't like them as much. That's the nice thing about this build, since it gets generic damage increases, you can replace the main spell to anything you'd like really - you do have to take account the problems that come up with other spells though. Vortex is a good option since it scales with area damage and isn't as bad vs reflect. Essence Drain is super good for boss killing and can definitely be an option if you don't mind the playstyle. Blade Vortex could also work out if you don't mind the way it plays. Any other spell like firestorm or bladefall could also be a thing, but you'd have to consider using hatred or poison and dealing with elemental reflect. Many other gems are also possible, but you'd have to accomodate for them. That said, I think (ice) Vortex, probably with decay, is the best option if you had to use a different spell. " Hm, I guess I should add this to the FAQ. I only use it to have a little extra "more damage" from frenzy charges. Editado por útlima vez por lucksickle en 3 nov. 2017 11:04:07
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Thank you for your long and detailed answer, lucksickle. :)
If a build is cheap or not really depends on what you consider being cheap. If 30c is like nothing, this is probably a cheap build. Even expensive builds usually start cheap, but noone would call them a cheap build. Since this build is highly gear dependent, because without damage you lack survivability too, it gets "expensive" like most other builds. I guess noone expect to kill shaper on a low budget. I wouldnt call it an uber lab farm build either. Yes, you can ignore most traps when your leech is running, but to keep it running during Izaro fight is the issue. You start with 0 leech, he has high resists, so your damage is low and your leech too. You have to evade all his hits, which is hard with DP and Flame Dash (the worst movement skill in game). At lvl 69 i am using a 5 link carcass with 2 apeps and mostly blue gear, my leech can compensate DP damage here but thats it. Even with 4.5k life he can oneshot you easily in merc lab. I would only try this fight again at higher levels, when you do alot more damage. Beside that, this build is fantastic, it clears maps almost as fast as a wander build and works like a charm on low tier map bosses so far. I was thinking of alternatives to DP as well and Essence Drain came to mind but i am quite sure that you only leech the hit part of it, not the much bigger dot part. Without the dot part leech would be too low i think. Same issue with Vortex. Firestorm looks pretty good, you could invest into fire damage too, but how to handle reflect maps then? All in all its a fun and interesting build and that makes it one of the most enjoyable ive played (and ive played alot, lol). So thank you again for this build! :) |
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" Ty for answer, i asked before recreating the build in PoB. So there is what I found : Hidden potential is not mandatory, far from it, remove it will remove few (i don't remember exactly but less than 10% i think) damages. No hidden potential means rare/unique items, so better defenses (that's what this build leaks of) and better rf damages for last tiers maps. my second question was silly indeed, u switch for another set of weapon against boss. 2 obliterations means 80% more chance to stack life leech from overkill. You are totally right. However, it doesn't exclude the benefit of EE for bosses. Actually with his exact build, just a tiny bit of cold/lightning on the stuff and shield charge/leap/whatever attack (or just a spell, such as popular orb of storm) on your second set of weapon give you free damage increase on your RF damages. I am asking for something else than dark pact coz I'm not confortable with dp without vp, especially in fight with high damages bosses. |
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" I am using my ingame setup in PoB and when i remove Hidden potential the total damage of DP drops by more than 25%. And i am not even using a 25% jewel, just a 24% one. 6 blue items increase your damage by 150%, which has to be more than 10% in total. If you really lack RF damage use Flammability instead of Enfeeble (do you have the 30% more damage enchant on glove or helmet for RF?) Rare items do not provide better defences. The defence here is leech, especially overleeching, not armour, evade, block etc.. The only way to have more leech is to do more damage and rare items do not provide more damage here. Why do you need EE? You kill bosses with DP, RF is just a bonus and cant even be used on every boss since it needs overleech in the first place. For mapping the most damage comes from obliteration explosions which scale with monster life. Using EE means for every little pack you need to cast Orb of Storms first or RF will do less damage than before. The whole point of fast and easy mapping with RF would be gone. |
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" Thanks for the explanation. Can't wait to start on Friday! Editado por útlima vez por guiniol en 6 nov. 2017 14:06:50
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