[2.5] Explosive Gladiator - Blade Flurry / Max Block - One shot T15 bosses!

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Icaros escribió:

Yeah Uul-Netol is pretty easy on this. Was only at 96 shards or something so didn't get to try chayula.
For clearing, I always found inc. aoe to be superior on BF because the small splash also applies bleeds/poisons. Kind of like a built in prolif. But it's too small to work like that with conc. effect.

Edited:
Yeah, i was surprised at how easy it was. Though it would be much tougher. I definitely use increased aoe for mapping, but went with concentrated in that Breach Timer due to the very tight spaces and proximity shields that the rare monsters have. Much less area to work in so I thought it made more sense to go with the higher dps.

Thanks for the great explanation of the double dipping mechanics.

Do you think it would be worth trying Chayula? I'm at 97 shards, so I should have enough soon. Can't decide whether to sell them or give it a try.

Here's an even better visualization of how insane double dipping can get with damage over time effects and stacked multipliers. (Thanks Neversink)
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pdRv9EN7SQbdJpYF_QhykzL1ZLDxvM4eq02rp9c2MTA/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true


This is why you want specifically damage/phys damage (not melee or weapon damage)/area damage on every jewel, and as many jewels as possible.

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wde97 escribió:

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Icaros escribió:

Yeah Uul-Netol is pretty easy on this. Was only at 96 shards or something so didn't get to try chayula.
For clearing, I always found inc. aoe to be superior on BF because the small splash also applies bleeds/poisons. Kind of like a built in prolif. But it's too small to work like that with conc. effect.

Edited:
Yeah, i was surprised at how easy it was. Though it would be much tougher. I definitely use increased aoe for mapping, but went with concentrated in that Breach Timer due to the very tight spaces and proximity shields that the rare monsters have. Much less area to work in so I thought it made more sense to go with the higher dps.

Thanks for the great explanation of the double dipping mechanics.

Do you think it would be worth trying Chayula? I'm at 97 shards, so I should have enough soon. Can't decide whether to sell them or give it a try.

I'd say chayula is worth a shot if you have decent chaos res. Damage there is a mix of phys/chaos. Cospri and Devoto get us close to positive chaos res alone.
CI builds have a bit of an advantage, but with our block it should be fine.

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NNF4E escribió:

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Icaros escribió:

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wde97 escribió:

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Thanks for the feedback! Please allow me to restate these concepts to test my understanding...Melee Phys Dmg (And also "phys dmg with weapon X") does not increase the Bleed or Poison AFTER the hit. It does, however, make the initial hit harder therefore the bleed and stacks of poison are bigger. Just "Damage", OTOH, applies an increase to the initial hit AS WELL AS the bleed and the poison AFTER the hit. Right? (Phys damage would increase the initial hit as well as the bleed, but for poison it is just the initial hit since poison is a DOT conversion of Phys to Chaos)


A separate question. We should value damage over attack speed, right? Because damage increases both bleed and poison whereas attack speed only increases poison via more/faster stacks.

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tainium escribió:

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tainium escribió:

I want to work Fortify in, as you recommend, but can't find place for it in my setup. I feel pretty tanky but DPS could be better (especially single target DPS), so I'm not sure what to cut for Fortify. EDIT: I did a playtest and noticed that I never get Endurance Charge on Melee stun to trigger versus bosses...and bosses is the only time we'd need that since Red Nightmare takes care of charges while mapping. So I'll see if that opens up some space for fortify somehow.

What if I moved Temp Chains to my Lvl 1 CWDT 4L and moved Blasphemy/Enhance/Vulnerability to a 3L? I know Temp Chains is great to extend the DPS of our DOTs, but perhaps we/I can get away with only needing it on tougher bosses/mobs where we actually take a hit? This would help my Cylone mana problems (less mana reserved) and give me more socket flexibility. But this would also drop Chains down to Level 5.

EDIT: This is working well in playtests. Plenty of mana and Chains triggers when I need it. Losing levels/Enhance on Chains doesn't gimp it. Hopefully this holds true into higher maps where the trash mobs might get too tough for my DPS to keep up.

Would really like to hear some analysis of this modification to the build. It seems to be working for me but I clearly have much to learn. Also, would a Curse on Hit via Surrender's Reckoning skill apply Chains even faster and more often than CWDT+Chains? In that case, it might be an even better option since then we could still level up Chains. At the cost of socket efficiency (losing a socket for the COH gem). Unsure what a good/efficient third support gem would be for Reckoning+COH+Chains; maybe Phys Dmg Support, Incr AOE, Enhance or Empower?

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tainium escribió:

Would really like to hear some analysis of this modification to the build. It seems to be working for me but I clearly have much to learn. Also, would a Curse on Hit via Surrender's Reckoning skill apply Chains even faster and more often than CWDT+Chains? In that case, it might be an even better option since then we could still level up Chains. At the cost of socket efficiency (losing a socket for the COH gem). Unsure what a good/efficient third support gem would be for Reckoning+COH+Chains; maybe Phys Dmg Support, Incr AOE, Enhance or Empower?

I don't like CWDT Temp chains because it requires taking damage, makes it really inconsistent with how much we're blocking/not taking damage. Keeping in mind that it's both offensive and defensive.

Supporting reckoning isn't really required, it was just something I was testing last time I was on.

You're making a lot of concessions to try to make cyclone work. You're spending skill points on mana/mana leech which could be spent on damage or life. With BF, supporting warchief for damage isn't necessary, freeing up 3 gem slots.

If you want numbers, download Path of Building https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding/releases It's like the offline skilltree planner, but you can import characters and simulate damage numbers as well.

So you can import your character, test other gem setups, etc and sim the results.

That's why I chose BF for the build. No other skill comes close as sword and board, especially with the massive more multiplier on release.

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tainium escribió:

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NNF4E escribió:

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Icaros escribió:

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wde97 escribió:

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Thanks for the feedback! Please allow me to restate these concepts to test my understanding...Melee Phys Dmg (And also "phys dmg with weapon X") does not increase the Bleed or Poison AFTER the hit. It does, however, make the initial hit harder therefore the bleed and stacks of poison are bigger. Just "Damage", OTOH, applies an increase to the initial hit AS WELL AS the bleed and the poison AFTER the hit. Right? (Phys damage would increase the initial hit as well as the bleed, but for poison it is just the initial hit since poison is a DOT conversion of Phys to Chaos)


A separate question. We should value damage over attack speed, right? Because damage increases both bleed and poison whereas attack speed only increases poison via more/faster stacks.

"phys dmg with weapon X" is the advantage of varunastra, i believe they add dmg to bleed.

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Icaros escribió:

I don't like CWDT Temp chains because it requires taking damage, makes it really inconsistent with how much we're blocking/not taking damage. Keeping in mind that it's both offensive and defensive.

Thanks.

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Icaros escribió:

You're making a lot of concessions to try to make cyclone work. You're spending skill points on mana/mana leech which could be spent on damage or life. With BF, supporting warchief for damage isn't necessary, freeing up 3 gem slots.

I agree. I'm doing it because I've already built 2 other similar Gladiators and they both use Flurry. I like the Cyclone playstyle and want to make it work. Yours is the only one of the three builds with enough DPS for Cyclone to be viable. Now that I'm higher level and reserving less mana, I've gone back to your tree (less tree concessions) and it is feeling good in play. Kudos to you!

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Icaros escribió:

If you want numbers, download Path of Building https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding/releases It's like the offline skilltree planner, but you can import characters and simulate damage numbers as well.

This is news to me and might just change my life :)



A mystery for me right now is that I almost never die except for occasionally right after I start Vaal Cyclone. I sometimes get oneshotted in that situation and can't figure out why.

how do you fight vs bosses ( t16) that are inmune to bleed and /or poison?

Here's an update of my setup for this build. Still enjoying this great build!



Passive skill tree build

Still using Cyclone but I see the power of Flurry in this build with an easy gem swap.