[2.6] The Curse Whisperer - Tri-Curse CI Whispering Ice EleRaider - Viable for Everything

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RobJohnsonsLumpidyLumps escribió:

If I could have some feedback on this for how its at so far.

Not sure what Im missing past the 6L chest. What is the 3rd curse?

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

Helmet:
Upgrade! It has a 6% int roll which is on the very low end of possibole 5-15%.

Gloves:
No Int!

Boots:
Only +17 Int roll
You did level CWDT to 18 and IC as well. Usually one does not level CWDT and supported spells to lower the proc threshold.

What is the ball lightning for on the chest? I have the same setup except for the ball lightning (only 4L right now) and mine never procs. What am I doing wrong?

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Luvz escribió:

What is the ball lightning for on the chest? I have the same setup except for the ball lightning (only 4L right now) and mine never procs. What am I doing wrong?

Ball Lightning delivers the curses via CWDT - Ball - CoH - curses setup.

If yours doesn't work then you are probably using wrong gem levels. Read the highlighted part of the Links section.

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Ball Lightning delivers the curses via CWDT - Ball - CoH - curses setup.

If yours doesn't work then you are probably using wrong gem levels. Read the highlighted part of the Links section.

Thanks, I got the 3L CWDT, Enfeeble, IC part to work, but what I don't understand is how does the level 1 CWDT cast your high level TC/Enfeeble since it has to be level 38 or lower? Does it only cast it off of the BL, COH indirectly?

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Luvz escribió:

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Ball Lightning delivers the curses via CWDT - Ball - CoH - curses setup.

If yours doesn't work then you are probably using wrong gem levels. Read the highlighted part of the Links section.

Thanks, I got the 3L CWDT, Enfeeble, IC part to work, but what I don't understand is how does the level 1 CWDT cast your high level TC/Enfeeble since it has to be level 38 or lower? Does it only cast it off of the BL, COH indirectly?

CWDT - IC - Enfeeble is a temporary setup for leveling until you get a 5L chest and Whispers of Doom.

How it works: lv 1 CWDT fires a lot, every time you get hit. It shoots a low level Ball Lightning. Ball Lightning hits everything in its path with its tendrils and procs the high level curses via CoH.

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Kelvynn escribió:

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Billydanomad escribió:

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Kelvynn escribió:

It's right there, in the boss guide: Minotaur

Or do you require one specifically with the Scion version because you think that the Inquisitor is somehow different? If I make a separate Scion video just for you, I'll have to dedicate it to you. :)

That is not a scion. I've played your exact build, it not viable for Minotaur (deathless), unless you maybe have elite gear. You will not beat the Minotaur deathless with only 8K ES with this (i.e. Scion) build, as you claim. It's almost as if you do not think there is ANY difference between the ascendancies. The fact you provide a video with a Templar kind of shows you do not understand the differences between the builds. Again, its a solid build, but stop pretending its with out flaws.


The scion is essentially stunned every time they cast WI, which is counteracted by the inquisitors cast/attack speed bonus, slamming fortify against the Minotaur is risky proposition with the scion build, and with out fortify, you are getting crushed.

Ok, you asked for it... :)

Lv 91 Scion totally beating the Minotaur deathless with 8k ES

I had to dust off my lv 91 Scion from the Perandus league with her mediocre stuff that was worth 2 ex total back then, do the Uber Lab which didn't exist in 2.2 yet, and then dumb her down to 1600 Int (8.4K ES; my Icestorm tooltip is only 7k which is too low for T16). The char is Lady__Summer in my profile if you want to see more detail.

The map mods are shown at the start: 120 IIQ, 38 IIR, 15% pack size. -Regen, +Crits. You can see some pretty hefty crits happening there. Still deathless.

No, it's not as easy as with the Inquisitor. Have to watch out for shock and Fortify a lot. But easy enough, and my Scion's gear here is quite a bit worse than the Inquisitor's. With his gear the Scion would have about 9.5k ES and 8k Icestorm and it would go much safer.

So, there you have it: you've played my exact build and couldn't do this, therefore I can't do this either, because I don't understand the difference between my own builds. Want to make any other claims?

And I have no idea what you even mean here:

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Billydanomad escribió:

The scion is essentially stunned every time they cast WI, which is counteracted by the inquisitors cast/attack speed bonus, slamming fortify against the Minotaur is risky proposition with the scion build, and with out fortify, you are getting crushed.

This build is immune to stun and Leap Slam is exactly what you need to use to keep Fortify up.

If you want to be REALLY safe, bring 5 Chemist's Basalt flasks of Grounding and run Purity of Lightning (see the Purity setup in the Boss Guide). But that's overkill.

I like the fact you did not show your elite gear in the video. Further, if you do not know what I'm talking about when I say " essentially stunned", in reference to cast lock, then you really can't be reasoned with, as you do not have the knowledge to understand why this is a serious issue.

Lastly, put in your build guide that you cant do stuff till lvl 91, with elite gear in the video. I would bet anything the character in the video used a a +1 curse amulet. I'm not sure why you argue, its like you get butt hurt that your build gets a little criticism.

It's not a bad build, but its not has some significant flaws, such as the not being to move.

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Billydanomad escribió:

I like the fact you did not show your elite gear in the video. Further, if you do not know what I'm talking about when I say " essentially stunned", in reference to cast lock, then you really can't be reasoned with, as you do not have the knowledge to understand why this is a serious issue.

Lastly, put in your build guide that you cant do stuff till lvl 91, with elite gear in the video. I would bet anything the character in the video used a a +1 curse amulet. I'm not sure why you argue, its like you get butt hurt that your build gets a little criticism.

It's not a bad build, but its not has some significant flaws, such as the not being to move.

Not this guy again! :))

Are you not even reading? My profle is public, the character in the video is Lady__Summer. You can see her exact gear and tree. She is not using any of my elite Scion's gear.

You can stop making a fool out of yourself now.

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Billydanomad escribió:

I like the fact you did not show your elite gear in the video. Further, if you do not know what I'm talking about when I say " essentially stunned", in reference to cast lock, then you really can't be reasoned with, as you do not have the knowledge to understand why this is a serious issue.

Lastly, put in your build guide that you cant do stuff till lvl 91, with elite gear in the video. I would bet anything the character in the video used a a +1 curse amulet. I'm not sure why you argue, its like you get butt hurt that your build gets a little criticism.

It's not a bad build, but its not has some significant flaws, such as the not being to move.

I play the build for the first time with my scion now...

The build is amazing and i started with this build in the league and bought a early WI for a few chaos ...

The "Stun" you are talking about, which is your bad cast speed - is only a problem in the very early levels when you get spell echo .. It feels really bad at this point (~lvl 40) ... because you get interrupted a lot.

Once your spell echo is lvl 12+ this gets less and less of a problem, if you are using faster casting at this point it is even better in the low levels.

I run everything with this build so far up to T15 maps and i use 2 different setups right now with just a 5L chest - no need for more. Depending on the map / bosses / monsters i run with either doedre ring for triple curse (which costs an alt or something like that) or double perandus which i found myself ... but i can also run with my found breach ring
Depending on wether i run 2 or 3 curses i use Warlords and Enfeeble or WL, Enf and Temp Chains.

Not being able to move is more or less you not knowing how the build works ... if you cast it over and over again yeah you get "stunlocked" by yourself in place. I kill most of the bosses with doing icestorm - jump - icestorm - jump ... this way i get hardly locked and the dmg output is still amazing


@Kelvynn

One question about the jewels you have in your build. You made a picture with the locations of fertiles / brutes, but do they overlap + stack? because the south brutes overlap therefore they should only give +64 int left and +39 int right (asuming both 24 int base) .. so my question is it really worth to make the brute below scion start point into this jewel slot? or is it way better to use itzaros? Same for some Fertiles - where i think only 1 Fertile - the right one - is better than Itzaros

I think I saw somewhere in these pages that someone went Juggernaut instead of Raider, is that somehow better? I tried this build on Witch and got to 77, figured I'd give it a try on Scion now.

There is a new option made available in 2.5: Scorching Ray + Cast while Channelling instead of Spell Echo and one of the DPS gems. What it does is effectively make your Icestorm cast time 0.35 sec, eliminate the mana cost almost completely, and add an extra debuff for enemy fire resistance.

For example, if your cast time is 0.45 sec, Spell Echo makes you stop for 0.9 sec and cast Icestorm twice. That's what creates that 'stun' illusion and makes you slow to react. It's fine since you are doing high DPS and the build is designed to facetank almost everything, you very rarely need to dodge or react fast.

With SR+CwC you stop for only 0.35 sec but cast Icestorm once instead of twice. That makes you much more mobile/reactive. You can stop and cast Icestorm via channelling the beam for as long as you need to, and the absolute best part is that you can stop instantly at any time. When you cast Icestorm directly, you cannot stop the casting animation and move in the middle of it. When you use SR+CwC you are free to stop channelling at any time. That is a very good feature.

Another good side is the mana cost. You only spend 12-14 mana to cast SR. This means you can spam Icestorm at will and never run out of mana pre-casting it on the bosses before they go active.

Both the faster casting time and the negligible mana cost are fantastic news for leveling. I am going to update all versions of the build to use SR+CwC for leveling.

However, there is a price to pay at high levels: SR+CwC is lower DPS than SE+another gem. And that might matter in some fights and have more or less effect on different versions of the build. For example, the Inquisitor version gets 55% increased cast speed against the bosses, so it already casts Icestorm faster than 0.35 sec while facetanking on consecrated ground. SR+CwC would increase its mobility vs targets like Uber Atziri or the Shaper where you sometimes need to move quickly, but it would lower the DPS and leech amount, and make the encounter longer. So I'm not quite sure that this will work for all versions of the build past the leveling stage.

For the Scion, it's also remains to be seen. Raider is already very fast while clearing, however that goes away when you are fighting a boss that doesn't spawn adds. So maybe use SR+CwC in the boss staff but stay with SE in the trash clearing/MF staff. Then again, which gem to replace? The Scion already uses CtF instead of one of the higher DPS gems. Switch to Pyre like the other versions? That's an option to consider too. I just don't have time to check everything right now.

And I like the Juggernaut suggestion. Chill immunity is a lot more valuable now than it was in 2.2. Hydra, Shaper, Tul breaches - being immune to chill would be really helpful there. Plus some more survivability that Juggernaut provides. The Scion has been a bit more squishy than the other versions.

I'm leaning towards switching from Raider to Juggernaut, using SR+CwC and possibly switching from AoF+CtF+Perandus to Pyre+DPS+skill points. But I don't have time to do enough testing right now. If somebody is willing to try that and share their experience - that would be great.