[outdated] Caustic Arrow Solo Map MFer (20/300+)
Any chance we could get a pro/con of this vs the "[2.4.0] Caustic Arrow High Speed Flexible Magic Find" build in the scion forums by X1aNzZ?
I'm complete noob at evaluating these things, what is the benefit of this build over that one? I know everything is pros/cons, so not looking for what is "better", just want to make the right decision for me. They seem to run similar IIQ/IIR, and his advantage seems to be movespeed on boots and chest. For the record I've been leveling with this build and hit 65 now, I really liked how this guide was laid out. Editado por útlima vez por OrionPlays#0800 en 13 sept. 2016 18:19:27
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I'll attempt a Solo Map MF vs High Speed Flexible discussion, at least to the best of my ability. Please step in and make corrections if I messed up, and feel free to ask any questions of this post.
Spoiler
Passive Tree Unless you are running one of the CI CA builds the trees are very similar. There are only a few nodes that can scale the cloud damage, and only so many places to get life and defenses from the tree. As such the difference between the two trees are very minor. Both trees are also posted at about level 90 having run all four of the Lord's Labyrinth. This build's tree takes the life node under Golmn's Blood, the life node leading to Master of the Arena, Master of the Arena, Piercing Shots, another life node in the Scion 'wheel', and two more frenzy charges. The High Speed build uses those 9 passive points to fill out Phase Acrobatics, and allocate all of the Shadow's starting Chaos/Phys nodes. Also this build takes Soul Siphon, and the other takes Primal Spirit. It comes down to personal preference of play style and understanding of mechanics as to which tree you favor. You can make the decision about number of frenzy charges, using Bloodrage, completing Acrobatics and Phase Acrobatics, and total life pool. Gearing Primary differences this build suggests Carcass Jack/rare chest, a rare belt, Goldwyrm boots, and Andvarius gold rings. While the other build requires Queen of the Forest, and suggests Perandus Blazon cloth belt, rare boots, and Ventor's Gamble gold rings. Carcass Jack is the only chest to provide a damage boost to the main skill, and a rare chest will help make up the resistances and additional life. A rare belt is a great way to get a lot of life, resistances, and if going for min/max potential, movement speed. Goldwyrm boots are a little slow with only 10MS on them, but they provide all your quantity in one item and a lot of fire resistance. Serleth has gone in depth about the difference between the unique gold rings. You can find a link to the math and discussion in the FAQ post. On the other side you have Queen of the Forest, which has a decent life roll, some resistances, and can really up your movement speed. Perandus Blazon provides a lot of all stats, some quantity, and a little fire resistance. A rare pair of boots can have up to 30MS, resistance, life and evasion to scale QotF. When trying to get the best out of the 'C' value for magic find, I think this build has the better ratio. Having fast movement speed is really nice. You could even try out the gear as it is in this guide and swap the chest for QotF and see how you like the slight boost to MS, assuming you are resistance capped. Also what you can find and afford plays into the decisions too. Movement wise you are looking at a difference between ~20MS vs ~50MS. Gems & Links Pretty basic and mostly the same between the two builds. The big difference is this guide notes the max Intelligence needed for a 21 Concentrated Effect, and it an reach that goal via the passive tree. So no other int is needed on gear. The High Speed guide has many of the gems leveled all the way to 20, and more int is needed on gear. This is likely one of the additional reasons for running Blazon. The gem level suggestions in this build are more to the mindset of min/max. There is no added benefit from having more levels in Faster Casting, Wither, Vuln, or Curse on Hit. Not needing any extra int on gear frees up suffix spots for more resistances, rarity, or the new essence chaos damage. I think those are the major differences between the builds, and even then they are not that major. I'll also note the reason I got involved in this thread is the sense of community around the build. Serleth and the regular posters answer all manner of questions, go in depth where able, post with some sense of humor, and are generally supportive. |
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" The build you quoted looks very similar to this build except that he drops a bit of AOE (Queen of the Forest instead of Carcass Jack) and some magic find (rare movement speed boots instead of Goldwyrm) to gain some movement speed. My take is that it's going to be comparable to this build since they're practically the same. But for what it's worth, I never really was in a situation where I'd generate more loot if only I moved faster. This build already has pretty good movement speed. Also, so much stuff drops and I generally pick up all (or mostly all) rares that I'm not moving at top speed most of the time - I'm looting. And I run dual quicksilvers so I just quaff one of those to speed past areas I want to skip. Editado por útlima vez por hankinsohl#1231 en 13 sept. 2016 20:42:55
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Just wanted to follow up and thank you for the detailed analysis. It really helped me look at the builds and see what you were talking about and learn more about the game and how builds are put together. Thank you and I will be part of this community for some time to come :D I am rolling Solo Map MFer in the end :D
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I'll chime in with my two cents (thants again to Hank/Chrono, who covered most of the points).
With how often you're stopping and looting, and in some cases simply waiting for tankier mobs to die, having a higher base movement speed really isn't all that valuable, considering you can make up for it by running two Quicksilver Flasks of Adrenaline. This is really the only reason to prioritize higher base movement with rare boots. It would allow you to drop a Quicksilver in favour of the new dps flask. But even then, the central reason two Quicksilvers are recommended is for more labyrinthine maps where a lot of backtracking happens. On more linear maps, only one Quicksilver is really required. The extra quant you get on Goldwyrm really does pay off in the long run compared to Perandus. I did extensive testing back in Ambush, and noticed about a 10% drop in my farming rate simply by missing 12% quantity. Edit for clarity: The above paragraph is addressing *strictly* the comparison between Perandus Blazon and Goldwyrm, and assumes that you will start off with Andvarius rings (which are cheaper for decent rolls). So the decision really comes down to this: If you'd rather have slightly higher dps for boss fights at the cost of some MFing, go with his build, but make sure you switch out a Quicksilver for Witchfire's Brew. Otherwise, there's no point to doing his setup. If you'd rather have more consistent MF and take a few extra seconds on bosses, go with mine. The exact reason I chose to not go with rare MS boots is because of all the stop-and-go to pick things up. Stupid-fast MS isn't really beneficial for you when you're looting a significant amount. We get similar clear speeds (he reaches mobs faster (Queen of the Forest), I kill more mobs faster (Carcass Jack). I want to be absolutely clear here: if you DON'T exchange a Quicksilver for Witchfire's Brew in his setup, the only difference between the builds at its heart is his MF is worse, and more expensive to pull off to get dual high-rolled Ventor's. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018. Editado por útlima vez por Serleth#4392 en 13 sept. 2016 23:25:47
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" Soon. =) I need to buy some gear for a second build, first.[/quote] you promised that you share this build :-) I hope its not another bv build. I loved the ea marohi toon in standard i testet between the leages. Its cheap and verry good to make uber lab. But the shaper is a verry hard nut to break. I saw some ea builds kill him but i dont like the ea playstyle. So perhaps you have a nice build wich kill all the stuff above t15. and please not so expensive :-) |
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Thank you for the reply Serleth, I am learning fast :D
Sorry for two questions in a short time, but now that Shrieking Essence of Dread gives us a guaranteed +2 bow, is there a cheaper (than 2ex) method of getting a +3 bow? w/ leo mod? I am thinking no because the essence fills in too many affixes, but again I am a beginner at this. |
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" This post, a few pages back, has some testing of Essence outcomes. Admittedly it is only 4 samples, but it appears the desired outcome of 1P2S is not possible. I think Essences add a minimum of four affixes. Now you could get lucky and hit +1 in addition to the guaranteed +2, but it is not reliable. If you were just going for a +3 bow (no DoT craft) I think essence crafting could be comparable. Just use essences until a 2P2S roll was hit, and finish the rest of the bow using the crafting methods mentioned in the gear section. Your cost of needing the two pure exalted is still required, but you change alterations + regal for the T6 Essences. (Not sure if an actual savings or not, because RNG) |
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" I will, if it works out. =) Currently level 76 with my re-roll. Gonna try push for 90 in the next few days then test it out in T15+, but it's almost guaranteed to require a 6L to perform very well. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018.
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" Please, do share the build Serleth. This new league has made some new builds really shine. Also, Uniques are raining from the skies :) |
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