[outdated] Caustic Arrow Solo Map MFer (20/300+)

Thank you guys, so when act4 arrives...more drops from map!! since there will be a rarity mod on maps plus quantity mod:-)

I´ve just bought (1ex) this AMU
I think it has 2 Prefix (AR+Life) and 3 Suffix (Fire/Cold/All Res), so if i remove last mod can i put 1 Prefix and 1 Suffix? , Which mods should i put? Rarity % (Suffix) and % EV rating (Prefix)?

My MF is 29/353

Or better just only put 17% rarity? (it saves me 2 ex from multiple crafted mods and 1 ex from EV rating)

So my MF would be into 29/370

Hey Serleth, thanks for the guide and all your responses!

One question: do you have a source for your understanding of how the "more projectile damage" from slower projectiles works? It seems strange to me that it would apply before the other increased modifiers, but that may be just because of the weirdness of poison arrow, I guess.

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redix27 escribió:

Thank you guys, so when act4 arrives...more drops from map!! since there will be a rarity mod on maps plus quantity mod:-)

I´ve just bought (1ex) this AMU

Spoiler

I think it has 2 Prefix (AR+Life) and 3 Suffix (Fire/Cold/All Res), so if i remove last mod can i put 1 Prefix and 1 Suffix? , Which mods should i put? Rarity % (Suffix) and % EV rating (Prefix)?

My MF is 29/353

Or better just only put 17% rarity? (it saves me 2 ex from multiple crafted mods and 1 ex from EV rating)

So my MF would be into 29/370

Remember: multimod takes up a suffix. So if you applied multimod, you would only be able to add a prefix.

So, just do rarity.

"

DrScientist escribió:

do you have a source for your understanding of how the "more projectile damage" from slower projectiles works? It seems strange to me that it would apply before the other increased modifiers, but that may be just because of the weirdness of poison arrow, I guess.

No, and if someone can find one (I couldn't), I'd love to read it. But it's a logic thing. It's not like Concentrated Effect, which is much more general. So really it's like dealing with order of operations.

It makes no sense for "Slower Projectiles" to factor in at the end of the calculation and impact chaos damage, area damage, damage over time modifiers, since none of those modifiers result directly into projectile damage. The projectile comes before the cloud, after all.

Do you think it would be possible to run this build from Scion, to pick up 6 or 7 jewel sockets and still focus MF.

http://cb.poedb.tw/us/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAAAO4FLQWTBiMIZw-rFSAVuBg8GYoZtBvIH0Ei4iP2JIsknSpNLOktgy5TNj0_J0MxRA1Eikd-R-JJE0rITZJTu1SCVP5VhVltWhpaUl-YYlpirGVNbIxtbG5pdO11y3aCeu99dYngjX6TH5M6lcyWMpcGm12btZ2qo4qj76Q5pcuomrTRtUi3trvjvSe9Nr3mvqe_1cMzwzrEosgMyCPIW8jwzZjPMs_d037V-NrB44TqYu4O73ryl_aj-WP-ug==

I have no idea if it would work, I was just wondering because the ranger version only has 2 jewel sockets.

I haven't played the beta, so I don't know if you can get res on jewels, but I heard to you could get area damage.

I also don't know if you have enough mana to run clarity/purity of elements.

Just wondering if you looked at this build from a scion starting point.

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pcrawake escribió:

Do you think it would be possible to run this build from Scion, to pick up 6 or 7 jewel sockets and still focus MF.

http://cb.poedb.tw/us/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAAAO4FLQWTBiMIZw-rFSAVuBg8GYoZtBvIH0Ei4iP2JIsknSpNLOktgy5TNj0_J0MxRA1Eikd-R-JJE0rITZJTu1SCVP5VhVltWhpaUl-YYlpirGVNbIxtbG5pdO11y3aCeu99dYngjX6TH5M6lcyWMpcGm12btZ2qo4qj76Q5pcuomrTRtUi3trvjvSe9Nr3mvqe_1cMzwzrEosgMyCPIW8jwzZjPMs_d037V-NrB44TqYu4O73ryl_aj-WP-ug==

I have no idea if it would work, I was just wondering because the ranger version only has 2 jewel sockets.

I haven't played the beta, so I don't know if you can get res on jewels, but I heard to you could get area damage.

I also don't know if you have enough mana to run clarity/purity of elements.

Just wondering if you looked at this build from a scion starting point.

I'm also in the belief that jewels are too stronk to not have a lot of them. Beta currently provides cheap jewels with 20% dmg increase and expensive ones with 40%. Or 10%dmg 8%life early or 30%dmg 8%life endgame.

I have put together something, very much based on Havocs PA just recently released for 2.0. 9 jewels nets 360% if you decide to go for pure damage. This jewel increase, while keeping more or less the same damage and defense from Serleth's original tree, and adding flask buffs. Of course this comes with somewhat other use of gems (No clarity, 5/6l ice shot with CoH, run pierce in PA etc), but the possible damage increase from jewels is too good to not look at closely.

Just to put my two cents in there, been very much inspired by Serleth - who provides the possibility and inspiration for a solo high MF character endgame. But also by Havoc - who's mindset I believe is not focused on MF, rather dps and endgame optimization. Gonna go rogue and try mix them both, Havocs tree and Serleth's MF optimization, and see what I end up with!

And this is in no way meant to undermine your work Serleth, you are the reason I even began considering playing PA. Rather a inspiration how fun it is to read, learn, get inspired and come up with ideas.

5 days left guys!

"

And this is in no way meant to undermine your work Serleth, you are the reason I even began considering playing PA. Rather a inspiration how fun it is to read, learn, get inspired and come up with ideas.

Yeah, exactly. I got back into this game because of Serleth's Flame Blast build. I googled the build you talked about and saw the video. He gets pierce from the skill gem on a 5l and doesn't run AoE it looked like.

I don't know what kind of damage you'd lose if you skipped the pierce on the tree and didn't use a pierce gem or used a pierce and ditched the AoE gem. IR is a must though IMO. I also have no idea what you could do with 6-7 gem slots.

I wanted a pro's opinion.

You lose out on 40% pierce from nodes in the tree. A Pierce lv20 gives 59%.

By gems you mean jewels I assume?
There are stuff like global damage, chaos damage, DoT damage and Area damage increase to name some. Projectile and others as well.

Example

13% increased chaos damage. P
8% increased maximum life. P
10% global damage increase. S
12% increased Damage of Time. S

From poedb. Not even sure on what the rules are on Jewels when it comes to prefix and suffix.

I'm holding back any futher opinions as I am far from a pro! Heh! Long live Serleth!

First of all, thanks for the compliments @hoeken and @pcrawake. I'm glad I could help you guys return and continue to find enjoyment in PoE. =) That's exactly what I've been hoping to get out of this guide for the community.

Now!:

The problem with dropping Pierce on the tree, even if you offset the damage with jewels and forgo Drillneck entirely, is that (I'm relatively 90% sure) that with the way the calculation works, you actually end up losing more damage by heading the jewel route.

I believe the way the calculation works is:

([(Base damage + increased projectile damage) * More projectile damage (slower proj)] + (chaos, dot, area damage)) * Concentrated Effect.

So with Slower Proj's *more* damage factoring in earlier in the calculation, it's actually nasty to lose out on the pierce chance once you're running Drillneck.

And it's actually 55% Pierce from the tree. Poacher's Aim unique jewel = 15% pierce chance, 10% proj damage. I forgot to screencap that to throw it in to my gear section.

But the reason we drop the pierce gem itself and focus on AoE is for pack clear speed. We aren't too worried about taking an extra couple seconds on bosses, so much as being able to fire and forget into a large pack and have it all melt instead of hanging around to fire an extra shot or two.

"

From poedb. Not even sure on what the rules are on Jewels when it comes to prefix and suffix.

They function more or less exactly the same as other affixes, but you get 2 prefix, 2 suffix instead of the usual 3/3.

Ie, life is still a prefix, resistances are still suffixes, phys dmg % is prefix, attack speed mods are suffixes, etc.

Important to note since they do have specific crit chance modifiers (lightning, fire, cold), it operates exactly like spell damage vs fire damage on wands/daggers/staves. You'll notice almost all direct damage modifiers are prefix when they're general, but when they're specific to an element they switch to suffix. Same deal for the crit chance. Global is still suffix, but specific ele is prefix.

Following all the same rules. Just have to learn a few other affixes that are new and specific to jewels that don't roll on other gear (area damage, as an example).

"

Do you think it would be possible to run this build from Scion, to pick up 6 or 7 jewel sockets and still focus MF.

The issue with this (for now) is that we have no idea what prices of jewels are going to be once we're dealing with a real economy. I imagine that getting life, projectile damage, and two resistances on a rare jewel would be worth 1ex, minimum. If you've tried crafting jewels manually, it's incredibly difficult to do so.

Which is why my tree (for the time being) avoids all but two jewel nodes. I'm trying to keep the startup cost for this build relatively minimal (5c for a 5L bow, 60 alts for +2, go to town) and relying on easy-to-find gear and the tree itself to offset resistances.

Once we get a better idea on what jewels are actually worth in a live economy, you might see my tree change drastically.

No knock against Havoc, but he picks up 3 duration nodes in his tree for no reason whatsover, btw. Unless he feels he really needs it for the CoH steup. But for my money if you want to run his tree, avoid those 3 nodes and spend them elsewhere (Charisma would be a good choice, buff Grace, more unreserved mana).

I also don't agree with his decision to go so heavy on flask buffs, but that's partly a playstyle preference and partly that his tree doesn't focus as heavily on MF, so he can afford to drop points into nodes like that without worrying about resistances that much.

Compliments and nice words shall be given where they are deserved Serleth! And you certainly shall hear them.

Great response as always! I get all your points, especially AoE for the "Fire and Forget"-Element and the build being fast to get going and relatively cheap.

Based on your calculations, no doubts it's incorrect (would however be cool with a source), I did tweak my tree, and magically worked in 55% pierce (including gem). And still got 7 jewels(9 endgame), and roughly similar other stats to yours. Believe a big thing is reaching the Corruption node, 13 points for damage that is added late in the formula - and where the same result is achieved with two jewels eventually.

Believe this should allow me to grab a 5l, roll it and go to town - yet have the potential to grow substantially endgame. But as you said, the prices of the jewels we want might be expensive! Going to be interesting to see where they land at.

And yes, everyone gonna have their personal playstyle, with gems flasks etc. But that's what makes this interesting! Heh! I love my flasks, and probably gonna struggle a bit more with resistance balance due to my choices in the tree.

Yeah unfortunately, I can't find a source that confirms the order of calculation in that regard. So I'm hoping logic is accurate. :P

I'll see what I can do once this goes live about manually working through the calculation to try discern exactly how it functions.

I've worked out a more jewel-heavy Acro option for the build, from Ranger (only takes Acro, not the additional dodge chance or Phase) for an extra 1 point.

In terms of direct tree to tree impact, it's -25% life, -16% all resistance, +4 jewel socket, -24% projectile damage, and -36% evasion rating.

Now, assuming that you get ideal rolls:

Jewel 1: Poacher's Aim

Jewel 2: 8% maximum life (P), 13% chaos damage (P), 12% projectile damage (S), 10% all resistance

Jewel 3: Identical to Jewel 2.

At this point, we are resistance capped (with tweaked gear), equal in projectile damage, +13% chaos damage, and -9% life. With three jewel sockets to go.

Jewel 4: 8% maximum life (P), 13% chaos damage (P), 12% projectile damage (S), 12% DoT

Jewels 5 & 6: See jewel 4.


Going all out on jewels, we get +36% projectile damage, +36% damage over time, +52% chaos damage, +15% life, and +4% all res.

EDIT: With basement rolls on all those mods for the jewels (6% life, 9% chaos, 10% projectile, 8% res all, 10% DoT) we still end up with +26% projectile damage, +30% DoT, +45% chaos damage, +5% life, and equal in resistance (to the original tree).

Other than Poacher's Aim though, to get jewels that well rolled, we may be looking at an expense of (total ballpark estimate) an extra 5-10ex. Which don't get me wrong, is totally worth it, but I don't think we can be reliant on a jewel-based tree for a build that's meant to be cheap for startup and relatively simple to gear.

Now, if jewels could be master-crafted.... ;)

I will be posting this into the tree section of the guide post for those that want to use it (and I'll probably make this spec change myself, as I get the jewels required).