[3.2] Scionic Flametank "16k ES ed." (ES-CI-ZO-GR, SR-CWC-FS, extensive guide)

Hi Pi2rEpsilon!

I'm doing a build which is a hybrid between your version and Dyness's. I'm using chaos incinerate but the tree is more similar to his version (using Shavronne's Revelation also). I've chosen the Occultist for its awesome chaos penetration and ES regen options. 2.2 basically doubled my effective dps which is great news for a mainly defensive build like this.

Current stats are 20,8k ES, 14k dps with ele overload up and 3,8k regen.

Tree:

The gear is a bit on the expensive side by now (been playing this build for a few months):



My question would be that do you think using Ghost reaver/warlords mark is really worth it? With 2% leech it sounds subpar to the regen we have (though warlords obviously has other benefits such as end charges/mana leech).

Also any tips on how to improve my character is welcome.

Cheers!

Hi relod and Epsilon!

Iam doing my own variation of the 2 builds too.I picked the Occultist because i use Consuming Dark and the new gem elemental focus really increased my DPS.The new Sulphur flask is more than good adding so much regen on high ES builds.I do pick some chaos damage on the tree because it affects both poison and firestorm damage and clear speed is really great.I did also tried elemental overload keystone but i think u need at least a minor crit investement to get the bonus up all the time.

I have made some notes on what i want to try next and i want some advice and your opinion.


1)My main problem is that i dont want to sacrifice a gem in my 6link for mana leech.So i tried running without shavs ring to see if my mana regen was enough.It isnt.I thought of dropping vitality and start using clarity (i havent tested yet because i was running very rippy maps last time i logged).Anyone tried to run a setup with mana flasks instead of mana leech gem?

2)Now in terms of curses i run Enfeeble for Defence but i thought i can sacrifice some regen to get Whispers of Doom and run Warlords Mark too.

Do u know if the 2% mana leech will sustain a 100mana cost Firestorm?
Also is the 2% life leech good enough to sacrifice 2 points and get Ghost Reaver?
Finally whats the best setup for Warlords Mark to be up all the time?

3)Some things to do next A)Get a deadhand or Primal Skull Tali with good stats (difficult) B)get the proper enchantments (Very Diffcult) C)Get a full Damage 6link setup D)Try to find Top Tier hybrid Armour/ES Helmet.

@relod87

I find Ghost Reaver/Warlord's Mark worth it. The leech is greatly inferior to the passive regeneration most of the time, but it supplements it nicely in the situations that are of greatest danger to the build - when it risks getting swarmed - and the endurance charges are so very nice.

That being said, now that I'm running Berserker/Occultist on my Scion, I find that the loss of my endurance charges is entirely tolerable and that going from 2% leech to 1.5% leech isn't that bad... when I get to dual curse Enfeeble/Temporal Chains instead.

Given how easy it is to get dual-cursing when you are in that area anyhow, I find it hard not to justify getting it, whether for Warlord's Mark or for Temporal Chains.

Put it like this: Spending the skillpoints on dual-cursing makes everything except curse-immune maps considerably easier (err, when they are a challenge in the first place, I mean. No difference if they are trivial). Leeching makes everything a bit easier and maps with high life/mana/ES recovery reductions significantly easier.

I find the ES loss to get that completely acceptable.

Heh. Looking at your gear, that you find it to be a "bit on the expensive side" seems to be an understatement. :D


@kompogiannitis

If you drop the mana leech gem from your 6L in favour of leeching mana via Warlord's mark, you'll be practically unable to run maps that disallow cursing. Also, it'll be more inconvenient for you, as you'll either need to apply WM manually (the only way to ensure it is up all the time) or do a lowlevel WM on a lowlevel CWDT setup - perhaps even requiring you to spend a 4L on CWDT - Ball Lightning - Cast of Hit - Warlord's Mark rather than direct application with CWDT - Warlord's Mark.

Clarity is completely unable to compensate for missing mana leech in your example without significant investment in mana cost reduction nodes or jewelry.

I don't know if the 2% mana leech without the 50% increased mana leeched/s will cover your firestorm expenses; It certainly isn't possible running Incinerate.

As noted above in my answer to relod87, I consider GR/Warlord's Mark a valuable supplementary defense due to the combination of endurance charges and life leech, and Temporal Chains an even better option if you've got substantial life leech from another source. And, of course, if one really can't find that many skillpoints, then dual cursing Temporal Chains without leeching is still better than running only Enfeeble.

Since you seem to be concerned about damage, let me remind you that apart from the substantial defensive benefits Temporal Chains also increase the damage you do with poison.

Really enjoying this discussion. It is interesting how the new Ascendancy classes are making some skills, like Warlord's Mark no longer necessary. I just removed it from my Pathfinder in favor of crazy potion mechanics for all of my healing and am not missing it at all.

Has anyone using this build made use of the new Sulphur Flask? I finally found one and they are amazing...40% increased damage and 4% Life Regen from Cons Ground? I'm going to experiment with it on my CI Witch tonight...after prying it from my Pathfinder's hands anyway. :D

I was thinking besides general survival and boss fights, they would come in very handy in the Labyrinth as well. 18.65% regen is quite impressive, even for just 4-6 seconds.

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SasoriOtoko escribió:

Has anyone using this build made use of the new Sulphur Flask? I finally found one and they are amazing...40% increased damage and 4% Life Regen from Cons Ground? I'm going to experiment with it on my CI Witch tonight...after prying it from my Pathfinder's hands anyway. :D

I want one but haven't found one yet, alas.

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Of general interest to any holdouts, I have now updated the first post with my new level 93 stats and current equipment.

15321 ES
2389 ES/s regen
22782 dps (nominal in UI) under optimal circumstances.

The optimal circumstances being Elemental Overload active, Fire Golem active, Rumi's Concoction used, killed an enemy within last 4s. This translates to ~57k dps fire and chaos direct damage and 12-15k dps from poison before resistances are considered, for a maximum of ~82k dps against enemies with FR = CR = 0, where the baby-Occultist's lowered chaos resistance boosts the already substantial damage.

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Pi2rEpsilon escribió:

@relod87

I find Ghost Reaver/Warlord's Mark worth it. The leech is greatly inferior to the passive regeneration most of the time, but it supplements it nicely in the situations that are of greatest danger to the build - when it risks getting swarmed - and the endurance charges are so very nice.

That being said, now that I'm running Berserker/Occultist on my Scion, I find that the loss of my endurance charges is entirely tolerable and that going from 2% leech to 1.5% leech isn't that bad... when I get to dual curse Enfeeble/Temporal Chains instead.

Given how easy it is to get dual-cursing when you are in that area anyhow, I find it hard not to justify getting it, whether for Warlord's Mark or for Temporal Chains.

Put it like this: Spending the skillpoints on dual-cursing makes everything except curse-immune maps considerably easier (err, when they are a challenge in the first place, I mean. No difference if they are trivial). Leeching makes everything a bit easier and maps with high life/mana/ES recovery reductions significantly easier.

Thanks for the answer, I'll try adding temp chains as my second curse whenever I can free up a couple of points. You also mentioned that you most need the leech when you are facing large packs - for me Vile Bastion is a great fix with 0,5% additional ES regen per recently killed enemy. With large packs it can add up to really crazy amounts of regen, I had 7-8k on some occasions.

Also popping a sulphur flask is beneficial for this situation, adding huge regen + nice damage boost as well.

How does this build protect you from "Releases caustic cloud of death"? I am not there yet but using CI I would have an issue?

By the way I really like this setup and build. Thank you for the hours of enjoyment. Your effort is really appreciated.

Unless I've missed something, caustic clouds (like caustic arrow) are chaos damage, which CI is immune against.

As for me, I've got a question before I go and try making one of these things that sound like a cool reason for me to try out a CI character: You said you could replace incinerate with any sort of spell (preferably fire), does that mean I could use firestorm instead of incinerate? I like how firestorm plays more than incinerate.

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SasoriOtoko escribió:

Really enjoying this discussion. It is interesting how the new Ascendancy classes are making some skills, like Warlord's Mark no longer necessary. I just removed it from my Pathfinder in favor of crazy potion mechanics for all of my healing and am not missing it at all.

Has anyone using this build made use of the new Sulphur Flask? I finally found one and they are amazing...40% increased damage and 4% Life Regen from Cons Ground? I'm going to experiment with it on my CI Witch tonight...after prying it from my Pathfinder's hands anyway. :D

I was thinking besides general survival and boss fights, they would come in very handy in the Labyrinth as well. 18.65% regen is quite impressive, even for just 4-6 seconds.

I'm just coming up to the end of Cruel in HC Perandus, and they're fantastic for levelling. I bought two for 5 alts each, rolled one with Chemist for frequent use and one with Expermimenter for increased duration on bosses. Went from feeling super-squishy in that I'm-not-quite-ready-for-CI phase to basically bombproof. Highly recommended for levelling (usable from lvl 35)

Also, since I have two, I pretty much keep up the buff 100% - with it granting 40% increased dmg, I'm beginning to question sacrificing a 4L to Elemental Overload. I know EO is *more* vs increased (and yes, it's awesome when they stack), but getting that 4L back for other purposes is looking attractive...

Side note: on baby-ascendancies - no discussion for Deadeye? I know there's nothing defensive there, but if you keep WM for leech instead of going Beserker, you get a ton of projectile-related stuff. I may have a play with it later ;)

Oh, meant to add: I've not tried the unique variant (selling for 1c each right now) as I've already picked up ZO - but since the unique flask grants ZO itself, it could be handy for situationally switching regen between life and es as you get ready for CI...