[2.4] The Dy'Ness Tank

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Pseudorandominator escribió:

Hi Ikbosh,

I'm currently playing a level 90 witch in the hardcore league and am running a tree fairly similar to some of the ones you posted below.

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwMBAW8B3AUtC2EMXw18DkgRUBGWFdcYVhpsGyUcpxzcIvQmiCj6LL8uUzWSNbk2xTrhPC1Bh0WdR35JsUrIS65N41NSU6VWY1fJW6Bca18_YSFko2h0aPJsC20ZbqpvO3C7dO1343gNeWh7w3wOf8aCx4Nfg8yESITZhO-Groqvi3qPGpARkyeUoJrgna6hL6ZXpwinK6dVqW6vbLQMtfK3MLc-uJO9Nr6KwBrBBMHFw23EWMauytPTb9fP2CTYvdkT2VvaYtrB34ri9-ha6QLquuvu7BjviPZI98H5N_no_gr-jw==

The builds you posted are quite reasonable, although some pathing could generally be improved. Of note, the 14% life node in the scion wheel is in the range if you put an energy within jewel in the jewel slot almost directly below it, which means you can take out one of the 5% life nodes in the life wheel that doesn't receive an energy from within overlap (and get 9% energy shield for free).

My gem setup is slightly different than the original build (I use iron will, for instance), but things are fairly similar. It's a fun build to play, so glhf.

Interesting, never thought of grabbing that 14% node using the Jewel slot below.
However, only two of the builds I posted would benefit from that. (Scenario 3 and 4)
Note, Net total gain would actually be 6%.
The reason for this is, the bottom Life node in Scenario in 3 and 4 isn't actually touched, nor is the one next to it. Like you suggest, we can sacrifice the one to the right of it, and then replace the Jewel with Energy from Within down below. But, the jewel sacrifice means we loose 8% ES from the Jewel we were using in it. But now both a 5% Node and 14% Node are converted. So (5+14 -8-5 = 6).
And then if we replace the jewel to the left of the Life wheel, we'd actually net gain a 2% of Life. Since it'd convert 10% within it's radius, but we'd loose the 8% from the sacrifice jewel slot.

I'm interested in hearing if there are any other ways my trees could be improved.

But I have to admit, I took a look at yours.
And maybe you might like this iteration a bit more?


Read below for more info and math etc.

Hi Ikbosh,

You have a good point about the ES/regen tradeoff of the build, and whether it's worth it or not. A couple of things:

1. Removing the scion jewel node in your tree (and the nodes leading up to it) doesn't appear to be a wise decision. Assuming a 12% energy from within jewel, you're getting a minimum 32% energy shield for the cost of 5 nodes. That's a better value than you'll get just about anywhere else on the tree, even not accounting for the resistances, raw stats, and armor and evasion you pick up. It's better to pick that up than the stray 5% life nodes that you pick in your tree.

2. Your point about removing the DoT damage/regen cluster is probably a good one. However, I'm particularly attached to that cluster since I'm running a consuming dark and I get extra damage from that. It might be worth it to prune down some of the regen on the tree, though. However, many of the ES nodes (or converted life nodes) you're picking up I would hypothetically pick up if I were higher level, so I'm not sure what the best thing to do here is.

3. The increased aura effectiveness is actually really good. The ES you get from discipline gets multiplied by your overall ES multiplier, so that combined 20% aura effectiveness you can get from the tree turns out to be really big. I ran the math on the usefulness of these nodes a while ago, and concluded that if you had mirror-worthy gear, it was better to take %ES nodes, but if you didn't, it probably wasn't. I don't have awesome gear so I'm taking them.

4. It's not clear to me exactly how you're counting the double-dipped life on the life wheel. With all four jewels around the life wheel, all but two of the 5% nodes and the 14% node get double-dipped, resulting in five nodes that give -5% life and 10% ES. Also, are you counting the additional ES from the energy from within jewel itself? I'm running 7 12% energy from within jewels, which gives a substantial amount of ES in and of itself.

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Pseudorandominator escribió:

Hi Ikbosh,

You have a good point about the ES/regen tradeoff of the build, and whether it's worth it or not. A couple of things:

1. Removing the scion jewel node in your tree (and the nodes leading up to it) doesn't appear to be a wise decision. Assuming a 12% energy from within jewel, you're getting a minimum 32% energy shield for the cost of 5 nodes. That's a better value than you'll get just about anywhere else on the tree, even not accounting for the resistances, raw stats, and armor and evasion you pick up. It's better to pick that up than the stray 5% life nodes that you pick in your tree.

2. Your point about removing the DoT damage/regen cluster is probably a good one. However, I'm particularly attached to that cluster since I'm running a consuming dark and I get extra damage from that. It might be worth it to prune down some of the regen on the tree, though. However, many of the ES nodes (or converted life nodes) you're picking up I would hypothetically pick up if I were higher level, so I'm not sure what the best thing to do here is.

3. The increased aura effectiveness is actually really good. The ES you get from discipline gets multiplied by your overall ES multiplier, so that combined 20% aura effectiveness you can get from the tree turns out to be really big. I ran the math on the usefulness of these nodes a while ago, and concluded that if you had mirror-worthy gear, it was better to take %ES nodes, but if you didn't, it probably wasn't. I don't have awesome gear so I'm taking them.

4. It's not clear to me exactly how you're counting the double-dipped life on the life wheel. With all four jewels around the life wheel, all but two of the 5% nodes and the 14% node get double-dipped, resulting in five nodes that give -5% life and 10% ES. Also, are you counting the additional ES from the energy from within jewel itself? I'm running 7 12% energy from within jewels, which gives a substantial amount of ES in and of itself.

Hey Pseudorandominator,

You're right, I had completely forgotten the inbuilt ES gain on the Energy from Within Jewel.
That makes a huge change haha. Oh man, sometimes things just slip my mind.

1) Taking into consideration the in-built energy shield mod, ya, is better, my bad haha.

2) Makes sense, and it really does come down to how much you plan to level etc.
If your build is fine as it is, and you don't come close to death. Then it's not all that important to change it if you ask me, just offered it as an alternative perspective.
Although, that got me thinking then. Maybe you're better off removing all those nodes from the Duelist tree? As you're only gaining 40% ES from that (This time I remembered to keep the Energy from Within 12% included haha). This however is costing you a total of 13 points.
If I redistribute those 13 points, we can get you to come out with 60% ES Gain instead, along with a bit of spell damage, and the extra 14% Aura effectiveness.
But you do loose regen, down to 11.4% - my calculations suggest this garners you more effective HP unless you regen for 12 seconds straight. (Lemme know if you're curious to see the math)

Tree:


3) I thought it was applied before the passive nodes, if it's afterwards, then yea, I can see how it could make a massive difference. As that basically makes it a more multiplier for the Aura component. And if that's the case, I've included the above tree to get the 14% node too. (I double checked the math out of curiosity, I see what you mean, need to have Mirror worthy gear for the points to better invested elsewhere)

4) Yea, I do count double dipping, but I wasn't counting the natural node. 12% on each one makes a huge difference, and I wonder how much I screwed up because of it. I spent way too much time working all of the previous stuff out for me to go back now, can only move forward haha! :D

EDIT: You should link all your gear, or your guy, so that I can base my math off your actual BaseES

Hi Pseudorandominator,

Interesting idea on double-dipping into those nodes. It does make great sense compared to the armour and fire damage nodes by comparison.

What are you 6Ls? You mentioned Iron Will in it. Do you mind sharing?

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Stoosh escribió:

Hi Pseudorandominator,

Interesting idea on double-dipping into those nodes. It does make great sense compared to the armour and fire damage nodes by comparison.

What are you 6Ls? You mentioned Iron Will in it. Do you mind sharing?

....But...but... It was my idea first! I posted it back on page 29! It was MY idea /sarcasm

I'm actually quoting him, to extend on the Iron Will question,
In using Iron Will, would that make it worth while using Doon Cuebiyari as your weapon instead?

Hi Ikbosh,

2. Removing the duelist tree is an interesting choice. It comes down to the more regen vs more ES question. At level 100, though, I would hypothetically take lots of those extra ES nodes you're taking, and it would be harder to find good ES nodes since we'd be taking more. I'll propose a level 100 build--see if you still want the duelist nodes.



At this point, there aren't a lot of extra ES nodes left to take, and I'm not sure what you'd want to replace the duelist cluster with. As a general rule, it's good to get your (mostly useless) pathing part of your tree out of the way in the early levels, and fill in the rest of the nodes later, which is basically what I went for in this tree. However, including (or not including) the duelist nodes is still something that could reasonably be decided in either way.

3. It's applied before the passive nodes (I can't wait for the big ES jump if/when I hit 91).

I've linked my gear below. It's not awesome by any stretch of the imagination. The only think I have here that's even moderately expensive is a consuming dark, which luckily dropped for me from a unique strongbox.

Gear:


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Hi Stoosh,

I'm not rich enough to have a 6 link, unfortunately, so I haven't thought about this too much. A good ES 6-link will cost a minimum of something like 30 ex, which is beyond my price range at this point. However, I'd probably go with empower for the last gem if I had a 6L (I'd go with fire pen if I didn't have a consuming dark). Increased duration is another good choice, but the closest calls I've had with death have been due to lightning thorns mobs. Increased duration with these guys scares the crap out of me, so I avoid it, even though it might be the best choice dps-wise. If you're playing softcore it might be the best choice.

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@Ikbosh, again:

Doon is a great weapon for this build. I'm using a consuming dark, which is probably a little bit better, but has just exploded in price recently due to the poison changes. If I were starting again from scratch I would probably buy a doon unless I dropped a really awesome weapon while levelling.


Anyways, hope this helps and glhf.

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Pseudorandominator escribió:

Hi Ikbosh,

Spoiler

2. Removing the duelist tree is an interesting choice. It comes down to the more regen vs more ES question. At level 100, though, I would hypothetically take lots of those extra ES nodes you're taking, and it would be harder to find good ES nodes since we'd be taking more. I'll propose a level 100 build--see if you still want the duelist nodes.

Spoiler

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAAAwMBAW8B3AUtBx4LYQxfDXwOSBFQEZYV1xhWGmwbJRynHNwi9CaIKPospiy_LlMvbzQKNZI1uTbFN2Y3gzrhPC1Bh0WdR35JUUmxSshLrk3jU1JTpVZjV8lboFxrXz9hIWSjaHRo8mwLbRluqm87cLt07XfjeA15aHvDfA5_xoLHg1-DzIRIhNmE74auiq-Leo8akBGTJ5SglS6a4J2uoS-mV6brpwinK6dVqW6vbLQMtfK3MLc-uJO9Nr6KwBrBBMHFw23EWMauytPTb9fP2CTYvdkT2VvaYtrB34ri9-ha6QLquuvu7BjviPDV9kj3wfk3-ej-Cv6P

At this point, there aren't a lot of extra ES nodes left to take, and I'm not sure what you'd want to replace the duelist cluster with. As a general rule, it's good to get your (mostly useless) pathing part of your tree out of the way in the early levels, and fill in the rest of the nodes later, which is basically what I went for in this tree. However, including (or not including) the duelist nodes is still something that could reasonably be decided in either way.

3. It's applied before the passive nodes (I can't wait for the big ES jump if/when I hit 91).

I've linked my gear below. It's not awesome by any stretch of the imagination. The only think I have here that's even moderately expensive is a consuming dark, which luckily dropped for me from a unique strongbox.

Gear:

Spoiler

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Hi Stoosh,

I'm not rich enough to have a 6 link, unfortunately, so I haven't thought about this too much. A good ES 6-link will cost a minimum of something like 30 ex, which is beyond my price range at this point. However, I'd probably go with empower for the last gem if I had a 6L (I'd go with fire pen if I didn't have a consuming dark). Increased duration is another good choice, but the closest calls I've had with death have been due to lightning thorns mobs. Increased duration with these guys scares the crap out of me, so I avoid it, even though it might be the best choice dps-wise. If you're playing softcore it might be the best choice.

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@Ikbosh, again:

Doon is a great weapon for this build. I'm using a consuming dark, which is probably a little bit better, but has just exploded in price recently due to the poison changes. If I were starting again from scratch I would probably buy a doon unless I dropped a really awesome weapon while levelling.

Anyways, hope this helps and glhf.

Hey Pseudo,

With all of the gear info, gem info and etc now.
I've created a full excel sheet where I was able to make accurate calculations.

Your final Level 100 tree, including the Duelist nodes. Appears to be the best move.
The regen, with that level of base ES, is more important.
Also I found it really interesting, how even if the Aura Effectiveness is applied before the nodes, that it still played out to be a better alternative. I think the higher ES nodes are only beneficial, like you say, at Mirror Worthy Gear.

On the other note then,
I'm curious, is Firestorm the best move damage wise?
What about all these new skills, and for example, Essence Drain etc?
Do you reckon you'd find noticeable improvements if you were to use a Doon?
Or is the Poison too good?

Hi Ikbosh,

I haven't given too much thought as to what spells would be optimal. The silver lining of having zero damage nodes on the passive tree is that you're not restricted whatsoever in terms of what spell you can run. So there are definitely a lot of different ways you could go as far as spells go.

In fact, if I had infinite resources, I'd probably go melee and run a Mjolner build. It would require fantastic gear and an absolutely absurd amount of chromes to make work, but you could probably hypothetically put out quite respectable dps with (an extremely rough estimate of) about 22K ES with 4.5K ES regen. I haven't run precise numbers there, so take those figures cum grano salis. There would be the obvious downside of going melee, but with those ES and ES regen numbers, survivability shouldn't be an issue except for a handful of bosses (i.e. uber, core malachai, etc.).

I guess the best thing to do would probably be to run whatever the FotM spell is. I don't know exactly what works best without much investment on the tree, so I'm open to suggestions. If you have anything that you think would work better than firestorm, let me know! Thanks.

As of now with the new spells like Essence Drain and all, what would be the most optimal CWDT links for both aoe/single target? I'm ASSUMING based on the outrageous single target of essence drain we'd want to slot that in somewhere? I'm currently using the below spells and wanted to know if any should be replaced (especially for leveling)

21/20 Arc
21/20 Lightning Warp (lol survival - not SUPER duper necessary, but fun)
Glacial Cascade
Cold Snap
Fireball
Molten Shell
Arctic Breath

all the above are like 17-18+ and leveling as my CWDT do. Any replacements/suggestions?

Greetings!

I've been away for awhile. Tomorrow I will update the front page and try to respond to some/all of the questions I can which were not already answered. Thank you to everyone who has posted feedback.

Here is the current tree and gear to answer some questions for now (On Talisman League). I post the stats tomorrow as well.

Gear:


Tree:


~Dy'Ness