[2.4] The Dy'Ness Tank

Shavronnes ring is the big regen boost (3-4%) plus the unique jewel with another 2% regen (but 10% more damage taken)

Then another boost is vitality level 20 socketed in Vaal Vertex mask with a lvl 3 empower (or 4 if you got a corrupted one)!

But your stats are really more than good!19k ES with capped resistances plus armour you really are at very good level to play end game content!

Tanked my Crit mjolner mara in PvP no problem!

(My build:)


Overall super solid and a classy guy!

-Savage

Very nice tank build :)

I found it very challanging to kill your character in the Hall of the grandmasters with my melee grandmaster killer.

"

kompogiannitis escribió:

Shavronnes ring is the big regen boost (3-4%) plus the unique jewel with another 2% regen (but 10% more damage taken)

Just for the record, the unique Fragile Bloom jewel is a trap for this build mathematically speaking. Every strong ES regen build is better off using just about any other jewel - including, with the gear in Dy'Ness current gearpost, any barebones ES jewel of 7% or more, rather than a single Fragile Bloom.*

It should only ever be used in high regen% builds if one wants to spend a jewel slot on triggering CWDTs more often rather than using it on using the slot on tanking or damagedealing.

I seriously doubt Dy'Ness is using it anymore after we discussed it - unless it is for triggering CWDTs because survivability is already obscenely good, of course.


* A few notes for the mathematically inclined.

21kES and counting...

Greetings!

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Wadjet escribió:

21kES and counting...

Good to hear! How is the regen looking?

~Dy'Ness

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Pi2rEpsilon escribió:

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kompogiannitis escribió:

Shavronnes ring is the big regen boost (3-4%) plus the unique jewel with another 2% regen (but 10% more damage taken)

Just for the record, the unique Fragile Bloom jewel is a trap for this build mathematically speaking. Every strong ES regen build is better off using just about any other jewel - including, with the gear in Dy'Ness current gearpost, any barebones ES jewel of 7% or more, rather than a single Fragile Bloom.*

It should only ever be used in high regen% builds if one wants to spend a jewel slot on triggering CWDTs more often rather than using it on using the slot on tanking or damagedealing.

I seriously doubt Dy'Ness is using it anymore after we discussed it - unless it is for triggering CWDTs because survivability is already obscenely good, of course.


* A few notes for the mathematically inclined.

Spoiler

This is because while the regeneration increases from ~17.4% to ~19.4%, the damage taken increases from 100% to 110%, so the effective regeneration for survivability purposes goes from ~17.4%/100% = ~17.4% to ~19.4%/110% = ~17.63%, an increase of a mere 0.23% to effective regeneration.

For ~18000 ES with the build's current gear and stats, you need a mere 7% ES extra from gear at 100% damagefactor to match a 0.23% increase to effective regeneration... so basically any ES jewel will do, since by dumping the Fragile Bloom you not only end up with higher effective regeneration, you also are less vulnerable to spike damage when your MaxES is only suffering 100% damage hits rather than 110% damage ones.)

In short, if you are ever thinking of taking a Fragile Bloom to increase tanking ability in a high regeneration build due to the on paper higher numbers, do yourself a favour and slot in another Energy From Within or rare ES jewel. You'll end up better both at tanking spike damage and at sustainable tanking damage over time.

I think that it still comes before resistance and armor reductions so it's not as bad as you'd think.

What would you consider bare minimum for this build?

I think i have some half decent pieces laying around but yea do you have like a min requirement or something that you would recommend to somebody. Thanks

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aStrayGami escribió:

I think that it still comes before resistance and armor reductions so it's not as bad as you'd think.

Ah, the question of whether the damage increase is applied before or after resistances and armour. I think it is before rather than after and base my calculations on that, but you seem to have it the wrong way around if you think this makes it for a better case scenario than applying it after.

As the damage increase is multiplicative, it is irrelevant whether it is applied before or after resistance reductions as those are multiplicative too and real numbers constitute a field (so commutative). Remember, when you do a total of x% damage due to (x-100%) increased damage against an enemy with y% resistances, you do x%*(1-y%) damage, not (x%-y%) damage. [For simplicity's sake I ignored penetration in the above; However, if we include penetration all it does is change the value of y% for the calculation; this does not affect the commutative nature of the calculation]. So 110% enemy damage is 10% increased damage taken regardless of whether it is applied before or after.

As for armour reductions, where you get to subtract a fixed value v based on your total armour regardless of how hard you are hit, the scenario is different.

Given a hit H>v (i.e. one that isn't negated entirely), if the 10% increase is applied after armour reduction, the damage taken is 1.1*(H-v) = 1.1H-1.1v, or a 10% increase.

If it is applied before, which you suggest is the better scenario, the situation is worse, as the damage taken is (H*1.1)-v, which is 0.1v more damage taken than the scenario of applying it after, so greater than a 10% increase.


So, unless there's some fundamental flaw in my assumptions or I clean overlooked something, the jewel is a trap for high ES regen builds*. It certainly felt so when I tried it out in my Scionic Flametank variant build (where it took me from 13% to 15%) without feeling a bit more survivable in practice - but it is possible that that is confirmation bias in action, as I had already done the mathematics and expected that result.

* Not necessarily for other types of builds; The lower the regen% you already have, the greater the relative increase in effective regen% from adding FB jewels.

Greetings!

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friedchicken279 escribió:

What would you consider bare minimum for this build?

I think i have some half decent pieces laying around but yea do you have like a min requirement or something that you would recommend to somebody. Thanks

No real minimum requirement. The idea is to increase your ES and regen. It doesnt have to go as high as mine has. At around 300-500 regen you should notice a massive difference when facing mobs. More for face tanking bosses. After that, its all about how you want to build out. Whether you want to go for more tank and run CWDT or more for DPS. The gear you linked looks like it should give you a decent start.

~Dy'Ness